6 + 2 Point Deductions

[Old Blue 2]

One thing to be borne in mid:

Where there is a system which carries with it a right of appeal, that appeal system has to be seen to operate fairly (i.e. Not to knock back 100% of appeals). I saw that every time in the civil service with regard to promotion - a small number would appeal against not being promoted, and a smaller number would be successful on appeal, the appeal system thereby showing that it is fair and just.

It therefore wouldn't surprise me if the PL reduce the points penalty (albeit by a small amount), then claim that the appeal system works (and in the process hoping that it fends off Government regulatory interference in their business).

To do otherwise would possibly lead them to being slaughtered by the Government over the issue of self-governance (being dictatorial and making things up as they go along), and their incapability in doing so.

 

[Fralahna]

Said this all along i think it will be 4 points back, the 6 will remain for the admitted breach.

But our argument is about the excessive punishment. 6 points, 3 less than administration, for being 20m over a made up figure over 3 years is mental.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

If they give us 4 or 5 back its still a high bar. It would mean the end of City and probably Chelsea for a few years, unless they try and twist a cap or the like onto a maximum amount.

 

[arch stanton]

If they give us 4 or 5 back its still a high bar. It would mean the end of City and probably Chelsea for a few years, unless they try and twist a cap or the like onto a maximum amount.

Chelsea and city will not be judged on the same methodology as us, I think we can guarantee the rules will have changed by then

 

[Tony’s Carp]

Guessing not today, so they dont think they can be blamed for influencing tonights game. Got to think of the PLs feelings you know.

The rules state that the decision should be communicated as soon as is practicable but I guess if the PL get the verdict in the middle of a match weekend they’d argue it isn’t practical or fair to release it until all matches are played to avoid undue influence or distraction.

I actually have no problem with that BUT if the decision was with them last week before the games began on Saturday there was no good reason not to announce it then.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Chelsea and city will not be judged on the same methodology as us, I think we can guarantee the rules will have changed by then

If that was the case I'm not sure any punishment meted out to us would pass the fair and reasonable test.

 

[Baggzio]

Chelsea and city will not be judged on the same methodology as us, I think we can guarantee the rules will have changed by then

Really the PL should look at us now and relent due to this. I don't think it's a conspiracy to suggest that they don't want to do anything to Chelsea or City that'd make the league weaker, I think what they'll do (and maybe what they planned all along) will be punish us harshly and then backtack. That way they can come out with "oh well we'd love to punish Chelsea or City but when we did it to Everton it was wrong, we can't win either way so financial fines for everyone!".

This is the first chance they have to actually implement a rule, if we retain literally a single point of our deduction then it would have to mean at the very least relegation for City and probably Chelsea, there'd simply be no other way due to the difference in magnitude, even with that Forest would also be in big trouble given that they apparently have a much bigger loss than we had.

If the PL don't backtrack entirely on us they're simply opening a can of worms that isn't worth it in their eyes. You can relegate Everton, but it also means you have to relegate the last 2 European champions that came from this league with those wins coming as a direct result of the financial doping, that is an irreversible black mark on the PL's legacy.

 

[Jcr1878]

Yes, with the Everton game being televised, they won't announce today. Whatever the decision is, it will cause fume, and even if we get our ten points back (we probably won't) I'd still plan to boo the premier league anthem and sing premier league corrupt as f... for all the crap they've put us through

 

[BlueandBald]

….i think the situation is dreadfully unjust. What annoys me most is that the rules are clearly not fit for purpose and will surely be changed. If that is the situation then the punishment is ludicrous.

I just can’t see this PL jurisdiction seeing reason, so I work on my worst case scenario of us incurring a further penalty along with Forest. If we’re still in the PL next season, I think it’ll be a fantastic achievement by Dyche & Co.

Fair enough. Sorry if I've misinterpreted it. I agree with what you replied with. Just shocked that anyone who thinks receiving 5 or 4 back, as a good result.

 

[Titus Bramble]

Fair enough. Sorry if I've misinterpreted it. I agree with what you replied with. Just shocked that anyone who thinks receiving 5 or 4 back, as a good result.

I suppose it depends what you mean by a good result... If we were to get 5 points back (plus a nice comfortable win tonight), that extra 8 points will certainly look good on paper as our league position will suddenly look much healthier.

However, as plenty have pointed out (myself included), any points deduction for the crime we have committed is completely wrong, unjust and over the top. I wouldn't be happy unless all 10 got reinstated.

 

[Victus]

Even if we get 5 back today or tomorrow, there's still the worry of the next potential deduction later in the season. I don't think I will ever truly feel safe unless we somehow managed to get 10 or so clear of the 18th placed team.

 

[WestStandLower]

So, what your saying is, a war in Europe increasing construction prices, destabilising confidence in financial markets, directly removing the ability for our main sponsor to actually sponsor us, alongside accusations against a player under our employ being unable to be played or traded are not, in your eyes sufficient as mitigating factors, but pleading guilty to cooking the books and saying 'weren't me though guv' is?

If what we have been found guilty of, essentially £20m overspend over 3 years with all mitigations ignored, whilst building a stadium is worth 10 points, or even 5 or whatever, then surely on a scale, deliberate avoidance of reporting a true financial position for many years in a direct attempt to gain an advantage is much, much worse. Same goes for City.

With only using the information in the public space as to what both City and Chelsea have been accused of, the only thing that makes City worse than what Chelsea have done is simply the volume.

What I said earlier was in my opinion none of the claims to their being mitigating circumstances are compelling had the PL not already agreed to allowing additional factors in their P&S calculations then the sum of £119.4 would have been greater.

As for reporting true financial position . I accept your point re Chelsea but it’s worth reading again what the IC say about the numbers submitted by Everton.

You can actually but during the process you forfeit your games which thus then screws up the entire league as it becomes 19 teams, it would be a long lengthy process that I doubt we can afford but the "PL rule book" wouldn't last 5 mins under scrutiny of a proper court, a judge would rip it up and stick it in the bin.

That’s what City thought and went to the High Court and the court was completely happy with the PL process

 

[efcfanwirral]

Even if we get 5 back today or tomorrow, there's still the worry of the next potential deduction later in the season. I don't think I will ever truly feel safe unless we somehow managed to get 10 or so clear of the 18th placed team.

That's the main issue, any deduction that remains leaves us open to more.

 

[ToffeeTim]

That's the main issue, any deduction that remains leaves us open to more.

But the lower this deduction is, the lower our risk is to a later penalty.

Or at least that should be the case.

 

[arch stanton]

If that was the case I'm not sure any punishment meted out to us would pass the fair and reasonable test.

oh absolutely, especially when they admitted they brought these rules in for our case, and the rules are being changed after this year, so this rule and unprecedented punishment was brought in solely for us. Absolutely mind-blowing in its unfairness, ineptitude, and lack of awareness on how quasi judicial proceedings should be conducted.