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6 + 2 Point Deductions

Toffeeslam said:
Can’t sue the refs

No club can sue due to legal clauses for being part on any of the pro leagues.

Same as no club can sue another club just the football league or Premier league I think (actually you can’t even sue them).

Actually didn’t someone try to sue West Ham for the Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascarano signings that were dodge ?
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I was just being a bit silly.
 
WestStandLower said:
I don’t downplay our alleged breaches indeed I have already stated that I see a significant points deduction coming.

Lets just wait and see what the PL or FA do re these allegations and the change of ownership makes no difference in terms of the possibility of charges.
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When do you reckon your deduction will be assessed? This season, next or further.
 
MrGrumpy said:
Everton push for it to be this season, otherwise it would of been last, so getting done twice is our OWN fault
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We were kinda right to do so like. The initial deduction was deemed unfair. Imagine if we did all this and we found out we shouldn't have received a deduction at all. How would the PL resolve that? Granted 6 points would still send us down but no one was to know 6 would be deemed fair by an IC at the time.
 

MrGrumpy said:
Everton push for it to be this season, otherwise it would of been last, so getting done twice is our OWN fault
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The IC and Everton were correct not to try to get it done by the end of last season

It was charged in March. Everything that’s played out since timeline wise, and even the much accelerated new 4-month timeline, show the process could not have been reasonably carried out in two months.

So it doesn’t matter who did or didn’t want it completed by the end of the season. The facts show this wasn’t possible.
 
Joey66 said:
As the rule stands, the loss is base over three seasons - we got done in this period 10 points reduced to 6 points - yet they are doing us twice in the very same period ? = Double punishment in the same era .....
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No the PL wanted to do us last season, but Everton held them off till this season that why it two this season
 
Marius57 said:
These journalists are all imbeciles. The clubs can claim compensation from the PL but can’t take legal action against us.

And I’m pretty sure they were given a specific timescale to do that in following the first hearing and it was then widely reported the clubs were dropping the claim.
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Aye, last time I checked Everton were /are not mandated to manage and enforce premier league rules. Any issues with this would logically have to be directed at the premier league.
 

Llyrap said:
Nope - "misdemeanours" or civil "offenses" are not used as terms of art in UK law.

Everton provided information that was wrong to the Premier League about PSR calculations. Their accounts were correct it is simply the treatment of certain payments. And they did not act contrary to a duty of good faith.

Whilst we do not know much about what is happening at Chelsea a BBC article states they broke the rules by "submitting incomplete financial information" during 2012-2019.

Setting aside any criminality or breaches of company law if true it should be much more serious than our breaches particularly as Chelsea won the league twice during the relevant period. They also won the FA cup and league Cup.

The key question is why did they do it? What advantage did they gain? There must have been some advantage for them doing it? I am assuming that they did something as otherwise they would not have self-reported.

Whilst a significant mitigation will be the self-reporting Chelsea, if found in breach, should face a significant punishment for their breaches appear to have :-

a) concealed it from the PL
b) provided false PSR calculations
c) it took place over 7 seasons.
d) obtained an unquantifiable sporting advantage.
e) Possibly spent more than PSR allowed.

In essence who do you punish the most? A team that because of inept financial management breached the rules over a two year period or a team that deliberately concealed information over a number of years when they won a number of trophies - which they may not have won otherwise.

Logically a points deduction in this season make little sense and neither does a financial penalty. If they are fined lets say £20 million how is that fair. If they breached PSR during those 7 years and been able to win trophies and have higher league positions a fine of that magnitude means that it was worth doing it. What kind of message does that send to the remainder of the league.

IF and it is a big IF that they were in breach of PSR during those periods, you would think that expulsion from the league would be the only punishment that met the minimum required, unless the breaches were very modest indeed.

It should also be the case that every other team in or around Chelsea in the league table during that period should be entitled to compensation for loss of league position and prize money.

There are teams in the Premier League during the seasons 2012-2019 who may have won competitions or finished higher in the league if Chelsea (and assuming that they did not) had stuck to the rules.

I do not expect the above to happen by the way.
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Good summary although the context of me using the word is that I do not believe any criminal offence has been committed the suggestion to me is that matters revolve around payments made by the then owner to individuals that are contrary to football rules

I am not going to go all city and say there isn’t anything to answer as clearly there is and I truth we have no idea save some leaked emails that give even broad details of what is being looked into only that Chelsea have already reached a settlement with UEFA.

As I said before I am far from sure if the FA or PL will take the matter forward simply because most of the PL rules are copied from the FA rule book and is that body that normally enforces such breaches.

The charges following the City investigation didn’t result in a re assessment of their PS submissions they haven’t been charged with the quantum of the numbers their charges under the PSR regulations I believe revolve around related party and fair value deals. It’s possible that these charges are proved that other charges followed but I doubt it.

So back to your 5 points above

a) Yes that seems to be correct
b) Possible but not a given
c) That’s what’s been said by UEFa re their settlement
d) That’s a simple fact
e) Again possible but it’s almost certain that Chelsea’s submissions for both PS & FFP would almost certainly be similar and the fact that there doesn’t seem to be a question that the more demanding FFP thresholds have been exceeded for those years.

What is obvious is that neither UEFA or the PL uncovered these issues as we know they were self reported following DD clearly the new owners conducted an extremely deep dive and that shows up just how superficial clubs audits are.

Finally what was the motive.

Possibly there was a concern that the numbers were tight , or maybe it was a way of avoiding taxes and or levies, normally most of these type of issues revolve around greed
 
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Toffe3m4n said:
Again... it's not actually possible for clubs to directly sue other clubs is it?

Even still.. surely any ire other clubs have should actually be directed at the Premier League if anything?? lol
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It is. Despite what some people on here seem to think you cannot actually sign away your right to legal recourse.

What the response from the league would be is up for debate and all those clubs would like to be in the premier league next season!
 
Fralahna said:
When do you reckon your deduction will be assessed? This season, next or further.
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My guess would be that any charge would be sooner rather than later maybe as soon as before the end of the season.

When Brighton were charged with broadly similar offences ( they self reported) between the charge and the IC sitting was 13 months. There isn’t any accelerated process for these type of offence’s and when you think they, Brighton, had 20 charges over a 9 year period even though on receipt of charge they admitted the charge it still took the IC 11 months to deal with the case.

That in truth was a simple case and you can see just how long it took
 

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