6 + 2 Point Deductions

[Gilbert..]

You are wasting your time. Some folks simply want to blame the Premier League rather than take a good look at those responsible for the investigation in the first place. They also don't seem to understand that we accepted we were at fault and that our mitigating factors were largely b/s and the panel saw through them.

The fact we lost 120M or thereabouts in 3 years doesn't seem to trouble them either. It's really remarkable that this has now become the acceptable threshold for running a football club.

I have no real issue with this. Which i'll answer as to why below. But i'd guess Everton are nowhere near the only club operating at a loss. Transfer fees and wages are seeing to that.
Its virtualy impossible to be successful in this money obsessed league without spending. We now have a league that is basically telling 75% of teams you've no choice but to just tread water in our league. The problem Everton had is they tried to bridge the gap by spending money on players that were just not worth it. Our fault, 100% awful transfer recruitment. No Everton fan would even argue with that. Now if you've cocked that up then its the clubs responsibility to claw it back. 100m for Richarlison and Gordon was going that way. You'll have to forget about jumping into the serious places in the league because you failed in recruiting and then cut your cloth.
Evertons main crime is they tried to better themselves. Should they be getting a 10 point reduction for that?
Im not buying into the premier league gives a toss about any club going into debt. Any integrity they had was lost when 6 clubs tried to breakaway and they punished them with nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Evertons 19.5m over their imposed profit and sustainability does not warrant a 10 point deduction.

 

[gwladysnight]

What part of his contract expired don't you quite understand ?

You can keep hold of his registration until the date his contract would have expired. That is where the confusion is.

It has to be like that. Otherwise, a player could retire, his contract would end and then he could come out of retirement and sign for someone else.

 

[mahermi1]

I have no real issue with this. Which i'll answer as to why below. But i'd guess Everton are nowhere near the only club operating at a loss. Transfer fees and wages are seeing to that.
Its virtualy impossible to be successful in this money obsessed league without spending. We now have a league that is basically telling 75% of teams you've no choice but to just tread water in our league. The problem Everton had is they tried to bridge the gap by spending money on players that were just not worth it. Our fault, 100% awful transfer recruitment. No Everton fan would even argue with that. Now if you've cocked that up then its the clubs responsibility to claw it back. 100m for Richarlison and Gordon was going that way. You'll have to forget about jumping into the serious places in the league because you failed in recruiting and then cut your cloth.
Evertons main crime is they tried to better themselves. Should they be getting a 10 point reduction for that?
Im not buying into the premier league gives a toss about any club going into debt. Any integrity they had was lost when 6 clubs tried to breakaway and they punished them with nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Evertons 19.5m over their imposed profit and sustainability does not warrant a 10 point deduction.

Spot on mate, I now wish the greedy super six clubs would have gone there and then, because the bottom 14 clubs now are just their Nursery clubs fighting to survive.

 

[gwladysnight]

You can't sack an employee and keep their contract. Just read it back.

You keep his registration until his original contract ends. Even though he is no longer an employee and is no longer being paid.

 

[terryefc]

I don't think S*ggy was ever prosecuted and yet the PL suspended him from playing?
I'm not defending him - I knpw nowt about what he did / didn't do - but his suspension clearly impacted us and was not something we could control. More factors that were unforseen and yet the PL took action that impacted both our finances and direct performance during this period. Where has this been taken into account in this judgement?

 

[Nymzee]

You keep his registration until his original contract ends. Even though he is no longer an employee and is no longer being paid.

If he's no longer an employee and no longer being paid (A.K.A. has a contrract) then how can the below ever happen:

We did that in case he was cleared and we could recoup a fee.

 

[roydo]

You keep his registration until his original contract ends. Even though he is no longer an employee and is no longer being paid.

So he has a contract that the club doesnt pay? Ok. IF the contract has a clause that says "if you are accused of sommet you didnt do, we wont pay you". then perhaps.

See various United players.

 

[Swagger]

I don't think S*ggy was ever prosecuted and yet the PL suspended him from playing?
I'm not defending him - I knpw nowt about what he did / didn't do - but his suspension clearly impacted us and was not something we could control. More factors that were unforseen and yet the PL took action that impacted both our finances and direct performance during this period. Where has this been taken into account in this judgement?

What was his market value at the time? Say circa £15-20million yet he was suspended by the FA so in effect we couldn't sell him and likely had to buy a replacement for him. I shudder to think at the STATE of our solicitors as these are clear mitigating factors just on the one issue.

 

[Gilbert..]

Spot on mate, I now wish the greedy super six clubs would have gone there and then, because the bottom 14 clubs now are just their Nursery clubs fighting to survive.

Ive no issue with those clubs tbh as we used to be one. We were in the big 6 with the conception of the premier league. And we voted for stuff i didnt agree with at times.
What didnt exist then was a punishment to any club trying to become a part of it.

 

[LinekersLegs]

I have no real issue with this. Which i'll answer as to why below. But i'd guess Everton are nowhere near the only club operating at a loss. Transfer fees and wages are seeing to that.
Its virtualy impossible to be successful in this money obsessed league without spending. We now have a league that is basically telling 75% of teams you've no choice but to just tread water in our league. The problem Everton had is they tried to bridge the gap by spending money on players that were just not worth it. Our fault, 100% awful transfer recruitment. No Everton fan would even argue with that. Now if you've cocked that up then its the clubs responsibility to claw it back. 100m for Richarlison and Gordon was going that way. You'll have to forget about jumping into the serious places in the league because you failed in recruiting and then cut your cloth.
Evertons main crime is they tried to better themselves. Should they be getting a 10 point reduction for that?
Im not buying into the premier league gives a toss about any club going into debt. Any integrity they had was lost when 6 clubs tried to breakaway and they punished them with nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Evertons 19.5m over their imposed profit and sustainability does not warrant a 10 point deduction.

Net spend figures are pretty dire for all clubs tbh

Premier League net spend table over the last five years

Forget the league table, it's all about the Premier League net spend table. And Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and Tottenham are ahead of the other 16.

www.football365.com

https://www.si.com/fannation/soccer/futbol/news/all-20-epl-clubs-ranked-by-net-transfer-spend-over-last-5-seasons

 

[gwladysnight]

I have no real issue with this. Which i'll answer as to why below. But i'd guess Everton are nowhere near the only club operating at a loss. Transfer fees and wages are seeing to that.
Its virtualy impossible to be successful in this money obsessed league without spending. We now have a league that is basically telling 75% of teams you've no choice but to just tread water in our league. The problem Everton had is they tried to bridge the gap by spending money on players that were just not worth it. Our fault, 100% awful transfer recruitment. No Everton fan would even argue with that. Now if you've cocked that up then its the clubs responsibility to claw it back. 100m for Richarlison and Gordon was going that way. You'll have to forget about jumping into the serious places in the league because you failed in recruiting and then cut your cloth.
Evertons main crime is they tried to better themselves. Should they be getting a 10 point reduction for that?
Im not buying into the premier league gives a toss about any club going into debt. Any integrity they had was lost when 6 clubs tried to breakaway and they punished them with nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Evertons 19.5m over their imposed profit and sustainability does not warrant a 10 point deduction.

The whole point of P&S rules is to stop clubs from being utterly dependent on rich owners. We are the perfect example of why the League needs those rules.

If Moshiri calls in his loans or walks away then we instantly become insolvent and go into administration. Basically, a founder member of the League and a club with a storied history goes under because Moshiri is an idiot. If anything P&S rules need strengthening not weakening.

If there weren't P&S rules that actually to an extent reined in Moshiri's excesses we would be in an even worse situation. He would have just bought even more rubbish players and we would be in even more debt.

 

[kenada_blue]

It wasn't within the rules. That is why it wasn't allowed. That is why we dropped it at the pre-trial.

As for lying or being dishonest, the club stated that the Stadium loans were interest-bearing. They were not.

The club stated that the Metro and media rights loans were for the Stadium so we could add the interest paid to our permissible deductions. They did that knowing that the terms of the loan were freely available as a download from companies house. Absolute amateur hour.

At the pre-trial the club dropped the COVID loss argument. So why are you even bringing it up.

Going almost 20% over permissible losses is a serious breach. A points deduction was inevitable. Moshiri had ample opportunity to get us within P&S rules. He chose not to. The aggravating issues of misleading the PL is why we got a harsher punishment.

So we've given false accounts to the league then? That's what you're basically saying. You can't "mislead" financials that have been audited.

Yet we haven't. It's been a case of we say it was £9mill over, they say £19.5mill, and argued over what was conjecturous to be allowed for P&S.

You're adamant that we've lied and are duly deserving of a 10 point deduction (something the commission refused to agree on how it was calculated).

We haven't lied. We took the piss within the framework with factors and elements they didn't agree were part of P&S (war in Ukraine, stadium funding, players being sacked for eg) which ended up being £19.5mill over.

They agreed 1 factor (say Player X), that's £10mill. That's back to the £9mill we originally stated.


And yes. A points deduction is what they've come to. No one is arguing that and we take that.

The argument is the level.

 

[Tipp blue]

You are wasting your time. Some folks simply want to blame the Premier League rather than take a good look at those responsible for the investigation in the first place. They also don't seem to understand that we accepted we were at fault and that our mitigating factors were largely b/s and the panel saw through them.

The fact we lost 120M or thereabouts in 3 years doesn't seem to trouble them either. It's really remarkable that this has now become the acceptable threshold for running a football club.

We lost £19.5 million... says so in the commissions report. We got punished 10 points for £19.5 million not £120 million.

 

[kenada_blue]

Reading this thread a few on here likely follow him on twitter

Proper fanboys of his

 

[brieverton]

DBB's posturing against the Super League was a huge mistake. I agreed with the sentiment but she shouldn't have gone public with that opinion. I thought that at the time and said it. The dye was already cast then in terms of what we were ultimately charged with. She should have said nothing. People in glass houses. Those comments were definately noted for future reference.

That was the day the club's cards were marked. Now we pay for it.