6 + 2 Point Deductions

[HalfTimeSayers]

They've spread their costs over the course of long contracts, in some cases 7 or 8 years long.
Great for the accounts today but if they don't work out, you are stuck with them on the books

Didn’t they also ship a load out in summer, some high earners too. Couple to Saudi presumably for more than market value in a totally fair and transparent manner?

Couple that with the stupidly long contracts they might be close the limits.

As you say, having a fast but shackled by Young and Patto and generally ineffective Mudryk on a 2847 year contract now looks at lot less clever than they thought it was. 2031 that one finishes

 

[Miked1e]

I get what you mean but I think we'll want to have this new panel make their own decisions based on our (hopefully) better defence. The longer it takes the more likely we'll get a positive outcome I think.

Obviously it needs to be sorted soon ish, especially with the talk of new charges for whoever's new accounts break the rules. This will be the precedent

Do you think we can send Tarks and Branthwaite to the hearing?

 

[ClausThomsen]

You make some very fair points, but known risks are surely weighted in any risk analysis, and it seems nobody thought Putin would actually invade Ukraine and instantly lead to sanctions on Russian investment with such a direct impact on the club.

The timing of the war, Covid and the Player X issue all coming in such a short space of time seem to have constituted a perfect storm in terms of the club's financial planning, and all the while incurring massive up front costs on the stadium project.

I personally don't think the spending limits are huge in the context of the vast amount of spending in the PL and the era of £100m plus players for the top clubs, which ultimately raises prices across the spectrum to the point where very average players can command fees of £30m, as we know to our cost.

Putting almost all the eggs in one basket (Usmanov) was always going to carry a certain degree of risk. And while it was a perfect storm the particulars of what caused that funding to disappear is not really relevant to the case in terms of affecting a ruling. Even the smallest risks can happen and the fact that Everton didn't foresee or think likely those risks is just tough luck. It all comes down to a lot of dependency being put on one person which is never ideal should something happen.

Ironically the financial harm that Covid inflicted was probably quite beneficial to Everton's defence case as a lot of duff spending could be assigned to that. The same way multiple companies and services continued to use it as an excuse to hide failings long after things had got back to a relative normality.

I don't think the spending limits can be measured against what clubs choose to spend. It's measured against income and what is sustainable for a club as a going concern. Defining limits using a bloated market is a sure fire recipe for disaster if clubs with less stable finance and irresponsible ownership see it as a green light to spend way more than what a club can realistically sustain should a less than ideal situation come along. Owners can walk away from the mess, clubs can't.

 

[ClausThomsen]

Maybe am being a little bit thick here but Chelsea have spent almost a billion pound in the last 12 months or so, so what is their turnover over this period?

They haven't. They've entered into deals and contracts that may cost these sums over the course of the next few years but they haven't spent it in the last 12 months or so.

You'd need to see the actual particulars of the structures of deals between clubs, player contracts, loads of other things and then how it's all put through the books to have an idea of what their spending actually is.

 

[ToffeeTim]

They haven't. They've entered into deals and contracts that may cost these sums over the course of the next few years but they haven't spent it in the last 12 months or so.

You'd need to see the actual particulars of the structures of deals between clubs, player contracts, loads of other things and then how it's all put through the books to have an idea of what their spending actually is.

The deals are worth whatever amount will be paid, regardless of when it will be paid. That's why I disagreed with the narrative last summer about us spending nothing, because we had delayed payment. You wouldn't buy a car on credit and tell people it was free.

You put the total value of a contract on the books as an asset in year 1, at the total value it ultimately will cost you. The fact you haven't paid for a player yet doesn't change that, it just means you have a liability as well

Chelsea have spent an astronomical amount of money and will have to write off the value of all these players.

 

[navidson]

Does anyone know what Chelsea’s rolling losses will be with two successive years outside the Champions League and £800m outgoings on transfer fees alone in that time? They could be in trouble.

Ok I said could.

They've spent £712m more on player transfers than they've recouped over the past 3 years

That's all I know

 

[Jacko93]

Probably made £608m in new sponsorships in the last 12 months.

 

[Davideeyore]

Just trying to catch up on the comments. I know most of this is spoken in jest stuff like we've got 9 of them back already, stuff like that.

But remember these are points won, hard fought points on the pitch. Nothing to do with the players or the fans.

And if it was any of the "big" six teams who had 10 points do you think for one minute they'd be suggesting they'd be happy with half the points back as a settlement? Not a chance. If they were challenging for the title or Europe every point counts. Just the same for us this season that we could end up in European places. With the 10 points. (Unlikely without them back regardless of our form!).

That would be a big bone of contention and a big legal standpoint every football club would take issue with not just Everton.

 

[Magus]

Putting almost all the eggs in one basket (Usmanov) was always going to carry a certain degree of risk. And while it was a perfect storm the particulars of what caused that funding to disappear is not really relevant to the case in terms of affecting a ruling. Even the smallest risks can happen and the fact that Everton didn't foresee or think likely those risks is just tough luck. It all comes down to a lot of dependency being put on one person which is never ideal should something happen.

Ironically the financial harm that Covid inflicted was probably quite beneficial to Everton's defence case as a lot of duff spending could be assigned to that. The same way multiple companies and services continued to use it as an excuse to hide failings long after things had got back to a relative normality.

I don't think the spending limits can be measured against what clubs choose to spend. It's measured against income and what is sustainable for a club as a going concern. Defining limits using a bloated market is a sure fire recipe for disaster if clubs with less stable finance and irresponsible ownership see it as a green light to spend way more than what a club can realistically sustain should a less than ideal situation come along. Owners can walk away from the mess, clubs can't.

Again, I can understand your stance in terms of stopping clubs from jeopardising their sustainability, but is this what Everton are perceived to be doing rather than an outlier due to a series of unlikely circumstances occurring in rapid succession?

Apart from some wild media speculation I haven't seen anything to suggest we are about to go bust, in fact I was surprised to see the actual scale of the overspend in the panel's report. The stadium build seems to be ploughing ahead as if nothing untoward has happened - does this really point to a club in existential distress rather than passing difficulties? I genuinely have no idea where the club stands in terms of its overall financial viability as opposed to the spending limits.

Of course these things could happen at any time but it is the nature of football investment to take a flier at times, and if you are too risk averse how do you ever aspire to compete? For me and many others these rules seem to be more about preserving the advantages of the top clubs than avoiding smaller clubs going bust.

 

[blueboy72]

They've spread their costs over the course of long contracts, in some cases 7 or 8 years long.
Great for the accounts today but if they don't work out, you are stuck with them on the books

The rules have changed, you can still dish out 7/8 yr deals 10 if you want. But the fee is accounted over 5yrs on the books

 

[Melchizedek]

So apparently we have earned the points back so we don't need to appeal!

The collective IQ of this nation is single digits.

Yes I stole £100 from you, but you went to work all this week and through great effort made £90 of it back.
Stop complaining.

Really can't get behind this "deduction was good" and "we've made the points back" nonsense. If we still had that 10 points we'd be top half of the table near Europe. As it stands we're just barely above the relegation zone. Not to mention the prize money difference is not insignificant.

We should not be satisfied that we got a 10 point deduction but it didn't take us down. We should be fighting tooth and nail to get every one of those points reinstated.

 

[Milk]

Since Boehly took over in May 2022, this is the top gross expenditure

1 Chelsea £928m
2 Man Utd £384m
3 Arsenal £367m
4 Spurs £366m
5 City £341
6 Newcastle £292m
7 West Ham £279m
8 Notts Forest £273
9 Liverpool £266m

20 Everton 50p

(source: Bill Edgar, Times)

 

[Dougie]

Since Boehly took over in May 2022, this is the top gross expenditure

1 Chelsea £928m
2 Man Utd £384m
3 Arsenal £367m
4 Spurs £366m
5 City £341
6 Newcastle £292m
7 West Ham £279m
8 Notts Forest £273
9 Liverpool £266m

20 Everton 50p

(source: Bill Edgar, Times)

I Thought the source was legit and the list was accurate until I saw Everton with 50p spent. No way we had 50p to spend maybe 5p and it was a misprint.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Showing your Kopite leanings here my pinkie chum, your just desperate for city to be hammered in a similar fashion to us aren’t you?

You don’t give a flying Fuchs about Everton - no Evertonian I know links the corruption that is rampant and clearly evident within the premier league to how other clubs need to be punished for alleged P&S failings, but that’s all the kopites have been tugging off over since we got shafted.

“Can’t wait to see what they do to city, give us the league titles they’ve stolen and relegate them!” You stink of it mate.

Your mask continues to slip, so keep my clubs name out your filthy kopite mouth in future.

So I've reported you for this you bad fool. Calling anyone a kopite is unacceptable. I've been a fan and on here a lot longer than you and I'm entitled to my views. Stop crying. And with regards your approach to parenting I'd be alerting any safeguarding possible if only you'd please share your real name and address. Best wishes.

Can't a business spend whatever the owner wants to become a successful business, has Bill Gates ever been told not to spend in order to make Microsoft more successful? Or have Toshiba been told you can't spend as much as HP because you don't make as big an income as them...
A football club is a bit more complicated than just saying it's a business there is clearly anti competition rules in place disguised as fair play..

It's their club. Our club. 1 of 20. Club rules. If its indeed anti competition then the courts will find it. Like joining a golf club and complaining the captain gets a free meal. Rules are debated at the agm. Change them or shut up.

 

[NathDogg]

So I've reported you for this you bad fool. Calling anyone a kopite is unacceptable. I've been a fan and on here a lot longer than you and I'm entitled to my views. Stop crying. And with regards your approach to parenting I'd be alerting any safeguarding possible if only you'd please share your real name and address. Best wishes.

You’ve reported me and your saying im the one crying?!

Theres a simple solution - stop acting like a Kopite and you won’t get called one.

Also, Why on gods green earth would I give a proper danger like you my real name and address?!!

Back to you box room sausage.