There are a great few points here.
When all said and done, have the measures implemented worked?
Its a resounding No, from all but the 6, as far as I can see.
A full root and branch overhaul is necessary.
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When all said and done, have the measures implemented worked?
Its a resounding No, from all but the 6, as far as I can see.
A full root and branch overhaul is necessary.
HalfTimeSayers
Player Valuation: £30m
The Brennan Johnson/Richy incidents say it all. If you have to sell players before a completely arbitrary date to comply with an arbitrary rule, the buying club has all the power. So by selling early to ensure you comply with PSR, you deliberately bring LESS cash (ignoring profit) into a club that by definition is probably running short, compared to waiting until deadline day for the auction process to maximise your sale price and cash inflow.
Arguably the situation only arises because of poor decisions you made in previous windows, but you could fall into that situation say because of a foreign war, or a sanctioned sponsor. Or just a tummy bug running through the squad meaning you lose loads and get less prize money.
How can any process supposed to protect fans from stupid owners running their club into the ground actually force you to make a decision that will bring less cash into the club. Its unworkable, unenforceable, impractical, and most of all massively skewed to clubs that already have a higher base level of non player sale related global revenue.
Someone with infinite wealth could buy Bournmouth and build a 290000 seater stadium, but they’d never fill it. Apple won’t sponsor them (and if they did it would have to be at market rates). And they won’t start selling merchandise in Asia and Africa until they have won 3 titles. But they can’t win titles because they can’t spend the same as United. Its impossible to complete.
Is it still sport if 70% of the competitors are effectively banned from winning?
(Insert Leicester argument here)
the Leicester argument is clouded when you consider some airlifting they may have had tomato a great story. There is a rumour a ref gave them a favourable decision and commented to a Leicester player that he wanted them to win the title. Apart from that observation. I agree with your comments, its an artificially fixed market that is horribly distorted
Tony’s Carp
Player Valuation: £50m
He’s right and it’s not just football inflation either, when it comes to p&l everyday inflation will be biting massively, even switching on the floodlights costs way more than it used to, basically all operating costs will be way higher than they were when 105m was put in place.
Ridiculous really that the threshold hasn’t moved in line with this.
The whole thing needs a major revamp, no doubt this will be too late to help the sacrificial lambs though.
ForeverBlue92
Player Valuation: £80m
What fans need to realise is every clubs owner outside of the very elite rich (like Newcastle) or ones wanting a play thing (like Forest) are happy with FFP as they know if the big 6 ever left to the ESL the value of their shares in the club would plummet over night. In short, they're happy to appease the big 6. Only we wanted to see them punished after the ESL debacle.
These rules could be ripped apart in any domestic or european court as being anti competitive. Ask yourselves why no one has taken action.
These rules could be ripped apart in any domestic or european court as being anti competitive. Ask yourselves why no one has taken action.
Its a good post mate and in the main i agree.
For me the corrupt element comes into - our sanction came as a result of an accounting error on an interest payment in building a new stadium - our sanction came as a result of investing in infrastructure - investing in the community - creating jobs - making the club more sustainable and future proofing the club - that was the very point of PSR. Its contradictory and rotten.
The counter is - the clubs agreed the rule and signed up to it.
If you really anaylse it forces other clubs to make themselves less competitive by having to sell their best players knocked down, to clubs with more money to comply. So the game and results become not about sport but about business - sporting outcomes are decided now off the field and not on it - who wants to watch that.
What can we do?
I touched on this during the week in another thread, there is a general acceptance that we have to sell Brathwaite and at a knock down fee - because "we need the money". We've been conditioned into that - "he has to go to a bigger club" or "we need the money". Thats our current mindset.
Is there a different way though. Less then about 10 years ago we were regularly finishing ahead of Spurs, in the time they broke the glass ceiling of CL, they reinvested that money to grow their revenue base, stadium etc and made themselves sustainable. How did they do that - they had a gem in Kane and they dint follow the surrender mindset and built a team around him and built the club off the back of that success in the last 10-15 years - it is possible even in the current context. But you have to be brave and not follow the perceived logic of selling your best players - you also need wise owners with foresight. WHU are another example with a European trophy last season, flatly refusing to sell Rice for at least 3-4 seasons. when you are lucky enough for these opportunities to come up you have to take them.
The difference we've already prepared ourselves to Sell Onana and Branthwaite this window or next - if we continue to do that, we are throwing water out of a leaky ship with a bucket.
There is a different way even in the corruption.
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Greenfield Wolf
Player Valuation: £100k
It favours the Sky 6, it needs binning off total bias and unfair
Probably when they can foresee the effect it will have on the relegation battle better - so it will either make better end of season tv drama.
Or will be irrelevant as we are already safe.
Remember its all about money with them if they can keep us teetering into the final games there's potential interest from other fans relishing our plight.
Moderatelywarmwater
Player Valuation: £10m
It favours clubs that are well run, surely?
The inflation point is a very good point. It doesn't make much sense for thresholds to not be adjusted over time at least somewhat in line with inflation
How can a business have a BILLION in debt and be well run?
And Manchester Utd.
All it favours is keeping the Scab 6 clubs snouts firmly in the trough - whilst the other 14 end up fighting each other for meagre scraps and constantly watching the 'sword of damocles' points deductions floating above them if they step out of line.
Tony’s Carp
Player Valuation: £50m
As regulars on here we pour over all this and probably have a decent understanding off all of it but football is for everyone, whether it’s obsessive fans or casual fans, the elderly or the very young. Everyone should be able to understand and enjoy it.
I was chatting to a blue mate last night who just wants to watch the games and not pour over the off field stuff. He’d heard Monday was the day we find out about FFP. Had to explain to him that that was when we find out about last seasons FFP but the deduction is about the previous season and we’ve not had our appeal etc. I realised how absurd it is to even be having these conversations, it’s nothing about football and most casual fans have no idea what’s going on.
People want to watch the footy and want the league table to be a record of the footy results. That’s it.
Points deductions should be for extreme circumstances like major scandals and serious criminal behaviour not accounting technicalities. No one should have to care about accountancy just to begin to understand how many points their club has or is likely to end up with. It’s meant to be for everyone.
I was chatting to a blue mate last night who just wants to watch the games and not pour over the off field stuff. He’d heard Monday was the day we find out about FFP. Had to explain to him that that was when we find out about last seasons FFP but the deduction is about the previous season and we’ve not had our appeal etc. I realised how absurd it is to even be having these conversations, it’s nothing about football and most casual fans have no idea what’s going on.
People want to watch the footy and want the league table to be a record of the footy results. That’s it.
Points deductions should be for extreme circumstances like major scandals and serious criminal behaviour not accounting technicalities. No one should have to care about accountancy just to begin to understand how many points their club has or is likely to end up with. It’s meant to be for everyone.