777 Partners / Whatever the hell you like

[Tony’s Carp]

If 777 get rejected, we have a huge amount of debt loaded onto us and 777 will potentially want to be paid up early or their funding turned into equity/shares.

Moshiri will have options open to him because he will not want to go into administration and not will any of the other groups want to because they will lose a hell of a lot of money.

Moshiri might continue to fund us until a further party raises their head plus he could lean on MSP or the other groups who have cash in Everton.

If 777 does fail it's certainly not impossible MSP have another crack, the arrangement that the creditors vetoed might start to look more attractive if administration looms as the alternative.

 

[PeregrineT]

He wants out, he wants nothing to do with the club.

Because of that, he’s not willing to put more capital at risk.

The asset is at risk, way more than any capital he puts in. He has way too much equity for that. If the team is worth 500m, and the stadium is worth 650m(lets say its not worth the 750m cost), thats 1.15b. If 777 put in something like 175m, by all reports that would put total debt to outside lenders at somewhere around 550m. That leaves 600m Moshiri would get back. He has way too much to lose by not selling at even something 200-300m less than value.

 

[Tony’s Carp]

The asset is at risk, way more than any capital he puts in. He has way too much equity for that. If the team is worth 500m, and the stadium is worth 650m(lets say its not worth the 750m cost), thats 1.15b. If 777 put in something like 175m, by all reports that would put total debt to outside lenders at somewhere around 550m. That leaves 600m Moshiri would get back. He has way too much to lose by not selling at even something 200-300m less than value.

I say this a lot but yeah, it's important to remember the value of the assets in play as well as just panicking over the debt level. At the right price it remains an attractive opportunity. Even looking at stadium alone, an infrastructure project on that scale occurs very rarely and the opportunity to get in with the bulk of the work both completed and paid for is very tempting at the right price. And like you say it's a reason Moshiri isn't just going to chuck in the towel and walk away.

 

[pfim]

The asset is at risk, way more than any capital he puts in. He has way too much equity for that. If the team is worth 500m, and the stadium is worth 650m(lets say its not worth the 750m cost), thats 1.15b. If 777 put in something like 175m, by all reports that would put total debt to outside lenders at somewhere around 550m. That leaves 600m Moshiri would get back. He has way too much to lose by not selling at even something 200-300m less than value.

Correct. I was responding as to why he would rather 777 lend the club money than put his own in.

Of course he would put more money in to protect his investment if that dried up.

 

[PeregrineT]

Correct. I was responding as to why he would rather 777 lend the club money than put his own in.

Of course he would put more money in to protect his investment if that dried up.

Right, if I could have someone else pay for something I didnt want to spend on, I would.

 

[Tony’s Carp]

FWIW on his podcast Bobble says 777 have been told by the PL they are at the "final stage" of the process and they are feeling confident (although they've said that all along). Dransfield and Spors have been attending most games between them in anticipation of it going through.

 

[Neiler]

Administration will categorically not happen... Moshiri will not allow his asset go for nothing if he needs to put £20m/£40 in for the next few months to get 100s of millions on the sale.

Thats like you buying a range Rover for £75k, the engine blows and instead of having the engine replaced for £10k to sell it you just get £200 scrapping it.

His asset is worth nothing though, at what point does he just cut his losses, there comes a point when nothing is worth more then giving ,another 200 mill - that’s where he’s at. It’s also the choice he could make around administration.

 

[Neiler]

If 777 does fail it's certainly not impossible MSP have another crack, the arrangement that the creditors vetoed might start to look more attractive if administration looms as the alternative.

MSP, have a brilliant deal at the moment, there 140 mill is secured against BMD and the lease with Peel - awful deal for us.

 

[Toffeeslam]

MSP, have a brilliant deal at the moment, there 100 mill is secured against BMD and the lease with Peel - awful deal for us.

Not really

They could never own the stadium as the lease with Peel states that the stadium must be owned by the club.

I’m sure I read this as part of the peppercorn agreement for the lease

 

[Neiler]

Not really

They could never own the stadium as the lease with Peel states that the stadium must be owned by the club.

I’m sure I read this as part of the peppercorn agreement for the lease

Their security is over the Everton Stadium Company, if we don’t pay. The lease is held by the Everton Stadium company mate.

 

[Tony’s Carp]

His asset is worth nothing though, at what point does he just cut his losses, there comes a point when nothing is worth more then giving ,another 200 mill - that’s where he’s at. It’s also the choice he could make around administration.

How is the asset worth nothing? The stadium is worth hundreds of million with relatively little needed now to complete it, you have the playing assets, the brand, the commercial value of a football club in the most watched league in the world. Hell, Branthwaite and Onana are worth the best part of 150m between them alone. 500m, 600m whatever our debt is, it's scary but it's matched to assets.

 

[Neiler]

How is the asset worth nothing? The stadium is worth hundreds of million with relatively little needed now to complete it, you have the playing assets, the brand, the commercial value of a football club in the most watched league in the world. Hell, Branthwaite and Onana are worth the best part of 150m between them alone. 500m, 600m whatever our debt is, it's scary but it's matched to assets.

Because there is over a billion of debt.

Factoring in the debt and equity is Everton worth over a billion. No.

Thus his equity is essentially about worthless.

If your equity is worthless, why would you pump in another 200 million, you wouldn’t, he isn’t and here we are, what I describe isn’t a theory it’s happening mate.

 

[Toffeeslam]

Their security is over the Everton Stadium Company, if we don’t pay. The lease is held by the Everton Stadium company mate.

No mate,

They leant the club £100m to help finance the build but in no way would they own the stadium in the event that we don’t pay.

It’s a loan the the club as a whole would be liable for, no one would hand over a £550m stadium for the sake of a £100m loan and as I have said the terms of the lease means the stadium would have to remain in the club’s ownership

 

[Tony’s Carp]

Because there is over a billion of debt.

Factoring in the debt and equity is Everton worth over a billion. No.

Thus his equity is essentially about worthless.

If your equity is worthless, why would you pump in another 200 million, you wouldn’t, he isn’t and here we are, what I describe isn’t a theory it’s happening mate.

Half of that debt is Moshiri's shareholder loans though, and I doubt he's getting that back. No denying the bloke has done his brains and at best is going to get out with a massive loss but from what i can see (as @PeregrineT says above) the value of the assets still exceeds the value of the external debt, so the club does not have no value.

 

[Neiler]

No mate,

They leant the club £100m to help finance the build but in no way would they own the stadium in the event that we don’t pay.

It’s a loan the the club as a whole would be liable for, no one would hand over a £550m stadium for the sake of a £100m loan and as I have said the terms of the lease means the stadium would have to remain in the club’s ownership

Not my understanding mate, they’ve actually loaned us £140 mill and my understanding is that is secured against the Everton Stadium Company, the ultimate owners of the ground and lease holders, it’s currently owned by Everton football club, but MSP have security on the Stadium Company. The Club I.e. Moshiri have entered into that agreement. Same way we used to use Goodison as security - we still do as it goes. The lease wouldn’t change it would still be with Everton Stadium Company, just not Everton football club - in the event the security was called in.