777 Partners / Whatever the hell you like

[Abertonian]

You'd think if he wanted to sell he'd be on the charm offensive with the prospective buyers of Utd who have a desire for purchasing a PL team and the finance to go with it. Probably a bit peeved with the way that situations dragged on as well.

In a move that sums up his ownership, moshiri is instead trying to flog us to a bunch of chancers that make Saul Goodman look honest. The death spiral doesn't seem to be slowing down.

 

[roy vernon]

I do t get why Moshiri would sell Everton now when in 12 months we be worth double to triple with the stadium, also don’t understand why it’s so hard to find a very rich buyer, football clubs especially PL ones are hard to find,
Take Utd 6 billion and then you need to spend 3-5 on a new stadium plus a few billion more to get them up the league, cost you a 3rd of the price to do that at Everton

Because he is strapped for cash and can't get finance at a viable rate. Laing O'Rourke will need to be paid stage payments on the agreed schedule and Penfold hasn't got the money to meet these obligations.

 

[siddharth]

That debt was never debt though and it’s different debt, Abromovich owed Abromovich, £1.5 billion, through his own holding shareholding company. That he then wrote off. But couldn’t write off, because he was sanctioned, so eventually it was a hair cut on the equity and went to community projects. If we’re being exact Moshiri also has the same situation with Everton owe him 300 mill in shareholding loans - like Abromovich he’s not seeing that again so it doesn’t exist.

Away from shareholder loans at Everton and Chelsea It’s very different to our external debt situation of having two active external creditors with security against our assets our PL TV money for 20 years and our new ground. That’s before we look at the security for our third and likely biggest creditor to complete the ground.

Our internal shareholding debt to Moshiri is £300/350mill, our external debt when the ground is financed is £550.

With your figures (excluding shareholder debt, that won’t be paid like Abromivuch) Everton are worth 1.15 billion.

Not even in our wildest dreams are we worth close to that, prob not 10 -15% of it and Moshiri could consider himself fortunate to get it.

How certain are we that shareholder debt won't be paid out to Moshiri or that he will not stay on in a relationship with the club as a debtor or worse as the landlord for the BMD stadium (Subsidiary company)?

Suppose, the book value of the club that Moshiri is aware of (excluding the market and brand equity) suggests that the sale of his shares at a certain discounted price point is a fair evaluation of the club's shares. In such an event, wouldn't it be more profitable to be a lender to Everton if we remain a going concern? Very clearly, we are not a profitable enough business venture to pay the shareholders for their investments. Would Moshiri not make more money being a part of the operating expenses of the club?

 

[pfim]

You'd think if he wanted to sell he'd be on the charm offensive with the prospective buyers of Utd who have a desire for purchasing a PL team and the finance to go with it. Probably a bit peeved with the way that situations dragged on as well.

In a move that sums up his ownership, moshiri is instead trying to flog us to a bunch of chancers that make Saul Goodman look honest. The death spiral doesn't seem to be slowing down.

People in the market for a Ferrari won’t usually settle for a VW, no matter how good a salesman he is.

 

[Neiler]

How certain are we that shareholder debt won't be paid out to Moshiri or that he will not stay on in a relationship with the club as a debtor or worse as the landlord for the BMD stadium (Subsidiary company)?

Suppose, the book value of the club that Moshiri is aware of (excluding the market and brand equity) suggests that the sale of his shares at a certain discounted price point is a fair evaluation of the club's shares. In such an event, wouldn't it be more profitable to be a lender to Everton if we remain a going concern? Very clearly, we are not a profitable enough business venture to pay the shareholders for their investments. Would Moshiri not make more money being a part of the operating expenses of the club?

No one would buy the club off him mate unless his shareholder loans were wiped out. Thus it will be factored into the resolution of any deal. Essentially the more debt Everton have the less price he receives. You can essentially count debt as part of the asking price - it will be most of it.

Otherwise his loans are all unsecured, so if we just decide not to pay them, pretty much no consequence. But they won’t be called in or held if we are sold, it’s not in his interests.

 

[pfim]

How certain are we that shareholder debt won't be paid out to Moshiri or that he will not stay on in a relationship with the club as a debtor or worse as the landlord for the BMD stadium (Subsidiary company)?

Suppose, the book value of the club that Moshiri is aware of (excluding the market and brand equity) suggests that the sale of his shares at a certain discounted price point is a fair evaluation of the club's shares. In such an event, wouldn't it be more profitable to be a lender to Everton if we remain a going concern? Very clearly, we are not a profitable enough business venture to pay the shareholders for their investments. Would Moshiri not make more money being a part of the operating expenses of the club?

Any shareholder debt has the same value as equity. He’s not going to leave unsecured capital in a business he doesn’t control.

 

[Swartzy]

Why would we borrow 100m towards the stadium from MSP
if we were heading straight in to a deal with this bloody 777. Surely they would've fronted that money instead of letting their competition get there fingers in us first.

they are gonna love being in debt to a rival company.

 

[siddharth]

No one would buy the club off him mate unless his shareholder loans were wiped out. Thus it will be factored into the resolution of any deal. Essentially the more debt Everton have the less price he receives. You can essentially count debt as part of the asking price - it will be,ost of it.

Otherwise his loans are all unsecured, so if we just decide not to pay them, pretty much no consequence. But they won’t be called in or held if we are sold, it’s not in his interests.

I understand that is the case if it remains a shareholder loan, but my question is if he can convert it into a payday loan kind of deal like R&M. He is also a board member now mind you. Pardon my ignorance.

I say this only because the debts from R&M, as I understand predate Moshiri.

 

[Neiler]

Why would we borrow 100m towards the stadium from MSP
if we were heading straight in to a deal with this bloody 777. Surely they would've fronted that money instead of letting their competition get there fingers in us first.

they are gonna love being in debt to a rival company.

The loan deal, in a no brainer for MSP, they don’t have to worry about managing the club and recovering it to realise and appreciate their investment as was the innital deal - they also don’t have to provide capital for cash flow.

The deal they have is brilliant, invest 100 mill, charge 10-15% interest on that and secured against BMD if we default. That’s a brilliant deal for them and investors and a lot less risky then taking a stake and providing capital.

The loan deal I suspect was offered to them as a last resort as we were desperate for cash.

 

[pfim]

I understand that is the case if it remains a shareholder loan, but my question is if he can convert it into a payday loan kind of deal like R&M. He is also a board member now mind you. Pardon my ignorance.

I say this only because the debts from R&M, as I understand predate Moshiri.

The new owners wouldn’t agree to that. The sale just simply wouldn’t happen.

 

[Neiler]

I understand that is the case if it remains a shareholder loan, but my question is if he can convert it into a payday loan kind of deal like R&M. He is also a board member now mind you. Pardon my ignorance.

I say this only because the debts from R&M, as I understand predate Moshiri.

Not sure how he does that mate. But the same thing applies, it just drops his asking price as majority shareholder, he’s not selling the club adding another 300 mill debts on to the books, no body would. He’s not seeing those share holding loans again.

The R&M deal is a consolidated loan we moved around under Moshiri, you might remember we had a facility with a Chinese bank well that is this, just moved around and added to - like if your moving your credit card balance around lenders.

 

[SeasonTicketNextSeason]

Thats a firm no from me dawg.

I mean swerving it is on the cards, but supporting another team is never gonna be.

OK dont need to support just go weekly...

Literally if your mum dad son daughter whoever was on their death bed , them everton players and club wouldn't give a [Poor language removed]. Simple.

Not even just that though, people discussing billionaires etc, players on 200 grand wanting more money. Its boring.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Because he is strapped for cash and can't get finance at a viable rate. Laing O'Rourke will need to be paid stage payments on the agreed schedule and Penfold hasn't got the money to meet these obligations.

I don’t think he is but everyone spinning this line, maybe he doesn’t want to put any more in, maybe there trying to clear the finances for the new stadium with 3 years of being under 105 million, meaning we can’t spend big again

 

[SeasonTicketNextSeason]

Naa

Why not mate?

 

[siddharth]

The new owners wouldn’t agree to that. The sale just simply wouldn’t happen.

Why not though, they get ownership of a legacy brand on the cheap and also get a piece of the pie if they ever turn profitable. It doesn't seem too bad for them.

And most of all, our boardroom would read like a roster from Legion of Doom.