9/11 programme on 4

[ChicagoToffee]

Away from who did what and who didn't do this and that on 9/11, for people to dismiss large scale deceptions that change the course of history as the product of mad, bulging eyed conspiracy theorists are barking themselves. It has happened. Did it happen on 9/11? Who knows.

Come again? Lost me here.

 

[McBain]

Worst comparison ever.

Really? I just don't think you would ever be convinced that the US government could pull off such a deception, and that gives them more power. Even cold hard facts, you dismiss so lightly.

The right to question your Government and know where your money goes is a fundamental right of a democratic society, but the way America is run, its easily manipulated into a fascist dictatorship.

I can see this will get heated, and Im not name calling, I just don't get how everything in the trade towers can get vaporized, no bodies found, but hang on, oh look, its Mohammad Atta's passport on the street.

Uncle Sam's lucky finds | World news | The Guardian

On Sunday night the United States prepared for fresh strikes against new pockets of al-Qaida and Taliban fighters in Afghanistan. At almost exactly the same time, American intelligence revealed that they had uncovered an increase in money being transferred between groups of al-Qaida fighters. According to my reckoning, this is the 14th handy thing that American intelligence has discovered since September 11. Think back over the past six months and it becomes ineluctable: never in the history of modern warfare has so much been found so opportunely. It started the day after the attacks on the twin towers, with the discovery of a flight manual in Arabic and a copy of the Koran in a car hired by Mohammed Atta and abandoned at Boston airport. In the immediate shocked aftermath of the attacks, these findings were somehow reassuring: American intelligence was on the case, the perpetrators were no longer faceless.
In less than a week came another find, two blocks away from the twin towers, in the shape of Atta's passport. We had all seen the blizzard of paper rain down from the towers, but the idea that Atta's passport had escaped from that inferno unsinged would have tested the credulity of the staunchest supporter of the FBI's crackdown on terrorism.
Yet we were still in the infancy of coincidence. On September 24 the belongings of alleged terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui threw up a cropdusting manual, while four days later came Atta's suicide note, the one with the counsel to shine your shoes before you meet your maker - a piece of advice which seemed suspiciously Norman Rockwellesque. It was here, too, that the stuff about 72 virgins awaiting him in heaven first started to circulate.
In December the laughing, boasting video of Osama bin Laden was unearthed in a house in Jalalabad. The new year saw no let-up in this serendipitous trove - January turned up an email sent by "shoe bomber" Richard Reid from a Paris cybercafe (and found on its hard disk) shortly before boarding the Paris-Miami flight in which he claimed responsibility in advance for downing the plane. (Luckily or carelessly, depending on your perspective, Reid had pocketed a business card from the cybercafe.)
And then, last Friday, Major General Frank Hagenbeck revealed that Americans had found a whole shelf of field manuals on undertaking terrorist activity, to put beside the instruction manual on how to use light automatic weapons left in a training camp in January.
Apart from the fact that the al-Qaida network seem to have a catastrophic way with lost property, isn't it strange that these most demonised and potent of terrorists seem unable to operate any weapons without a manual? Dad's Army is nothing - this bunch sounds as if they wouldn't be able to programme the video. And if the quality of their manuals is anything like those most of us have come across, they will still be wrestling with them long after the guarantee has run out.
Of course you could interpret these discoveries differently. You could detect in them the clear hand of American propaganda. This isn't, of course, to claim a dirty tricks department somewhere in the heart of Washington. That would have you immediately accused of peddling conspiracy theories, though I'm coming to think that conspiracy theories have had a bad press. What are they, after all, but "joined-up government" by another name?
All these discoveries can't obscure four things that American intelligence agencies have notably failed to find. First, even with a bloated expenditure exceeding Russia's total defence budget, they never managed to find out about September 11 before the event. Rhodri Jeffreys-Jones's new book, Cloak and Dagger: A History of American Secret Intelligence (Yale), shows how, almost since their 19th-century inception, American intelligence bureaux have invented or exaggerated a succession of menaces to defend their spiralling budgets and demonstrate their own usefulness while failing to tackle effectively other, more substantial threats.
Second, despite a reward of $2.5m offered at the end of January, the FBI still hasn't discovered those responsible for last year's anthrax attacks.
Third, American intelligence, tragically, didn't find Daniel Pearl, the US journalist kidnapped and murdered in Pakistan.
Fourth - and most spectacular - despite having highly sophisticated satellite tracking equipment, and offering a reward of $25m for information leading directly to his apprehension or conviction, they still haven't found Bin Laden.
Is this one reason why the US is talking about an attack on Iraq - a flexing of the military biceps to distract from flabby intelligence? Whatever the case, to find one training manual might be regarded as a stroke of luck. To find a shelf-full looks like desperation.

 

[Clarky66]

Dirty tricks and the manipulation of evidence to strengthen a case goes on in every country in the world, I know that, I am not naive.

The tactics used against the IRA by British security forces were frightening, but that doesn't mean that succesive British Cabinets new of them, let alone planned, initiated and helped carry them out.

That's what I am trying to say about 9/11. It's one thing for the the US government to know that an attack is imminent and in the aftermath manipulate evidence to suit there own ends, but that's a million miles away from being actively involved in the attacks.

 

[McBain]

I don't believe that the guys who flew the planes were poorly trained. I don't think they were experts either but a little simulation practice could probably get you up to speed on how to keep a 777 in the air. I've never flown a helicopter but I'd be willing to bet that after a couple runs in a simulator, I could get one off the ground and tool it around a bit.

If you haven't noticed, our trillions of dollars are being spent in Afghanistan and Iraq. Americans aren't trained (and don't have a history to rely on) to be on alert domestically. Of all of the contingencies, using 777's as bombs wasn't probably very high on the scenario list. We don't even use armed guards at our airports - the sight of seeing soldiers on patrol with automatic weapons would scare the pants of most Americans. The rest of the world is used to it - we're not.

You get ridiculed because some of the theories advanced are utterly ridiculous - the one that there were no planes, but actually missiles shrouded in holograms is a favorite. Seriously, who comes up with this crap?

Demand your answers. Ask your questions. But seriously, passing off what you can't prove as gospel isn't the solution.

YouTube - 9/11: Total Proof That Bombs Were Planted In The Buildings!

 

[BadWool76]

So Al Queda played no part in it then, it was the US government who was responsible. Is that what your saying ?

No thats not what I am saying . I dont claim to know EXACTLY what went out but I have my own theory . I serious believe that the American secret service along with others including the U.Ks monitored the situation that was unfolding before them. They manipulated and played these terrorists for their own gain right down to them flying the planes into the twin towers . The only way the American Goverment can silence people and there are thousands possibly millions of us is to hold and open and frank enquiry . The victims families deserve that at the very very least .

 

[BadWool76]

It wasnt directed in your direction, but seems tho you have taken it upon oneself to portray the classic internet hardman persona, I will gratefully accept the aforementioned request to air 1s problems and possibly engage in some sort of fight.

If you would be so kind as to name the venue and the starting time I will show myself and smash your frigging cake in lerd.

I was on about you and toccy you silly boy

 

[BadWool76]

Its depressing that we cannot even discuss a blantant cover up without insulting each other .

 

[Clarky66]

I respect your opinion Badwool and you are fully entitled to express it.
I am more of the opinion that the US government is guilty of inertia and a failure to act on the then well known threat of Al queda and the Islamic Jehad which began in 1997 with the bombings of the US embassies in Africa.
I also believe that the US government/war machine was unprepared for the manner in which the 9/11 attacks were carried out, when in light of some evidence, they should have been.

This war on the west is in it's infancy, it will be a long and bloody road, that's for sure.

 

[McBain]

That is easily the worst post/comparison ever. This is why you conspiracists get ridiculed and rightly so.

Why? Hitler convinced his people to go to war based on a lie, and he convinced America to the same. Hasnt anyone seen Fahrenheit 911???

They both lied, they both used war as their primary strategies, both betrayed and attacked former allies, both introduced laws to detain people for however long they felt like with no formal charge, both gave large government contracts to their friends, both implemented the right to seize property of any opposition... i could go on.

Its shocking that he and his team hasn't come under any sort of investigation.

But then again, anyone who wants to question something is a 'crazy conspiracy theorist'.

 

[davek]

Chicago Toffee/Clarky:

Just from the link I provided on Sheen....


The sinking of the Lusitania; Gulf of Tonkin incident.

From British history we know the Thatcher Governement ordered the sinking of the Belgrano sailing away from an exclusion zone.

Acts of aggression against or by a power accompanied by deception to enable a strategy to be implimented.

As I say, I have no idea what the truth is about 9/11. We do know, though, that deception on a grand scale with industrial scale carnage can be orchestrated. It's a bit naive not to have doubts about anything of this enormity, tbh.

 

[Clarky66]

I went on that site - 9/11review.com - It appears that every major world changing event is a government conspiracy.
I'm going to back off now anyway as we're simply going to disagree over this, which is okay, no worries.
I wish everyone well in their quest for the truth.

And it's saturday and the prem is back, so it's footy, footy, footy. . . C'mon you Clarets . . .

 

[McBain]

Yeah its too easy to wade into this stuff. Like quicksand this topic.

 

[BadWool76]

Never ever underestimate how devious Goverments can act . Only recently we have seen how underhanded the British Goverment can be in relation to their dealings with the libyan Goverment . They think nothing of blantantly lying to their respective people in the pursuit of vast riches . The British Goverment acted under extreme duress from Shell Mobil in order for it to secure Oil and Petroleum contracts worth billions & billions . The libyans saw their chance to stick two fingers up to American , the British caved in because of the money thats at stake . Its you scratch my back and ill scratch yours but on scale so sinister it makes your skin crawl .

Now it comes to light that the SAS have been training the libyan secret services for sometime . Hang on I thought the British Goverment doesnt do deals with terrorists states ? But here we are training former terrorists ? Just as we did with Bin Laden and many many more .

Bin Laden hasnt been found because America doesnt want him found if indeed he is still alive at all . They gave the American people a figure & a cause to hate and the rest as they say is history .

You only have to think back to the Russian secret service coming to britain and poisoning a decenter and slipping away unrestricted to see how evil our Goverments really are .

 

[chicoazul]

Dear God.

THE TV, THE TV, THEY CONTROL OUR MINDS WITH THE TV"

Or the internet it seems. Moyes is one of them you know, he's one of them lizards.

 

[atrottel]

It's them big stare-y eyes that give it away. Nocturnal vision. /*taps side of nose*/

Me, I prefer to think about the size of Katie Price's implants, or how Jack Tweed is suffering with his loss, or how we should keep Harrow white (like anyone cares about Harrow), or some ludicrous drivel about massive conspiracies, rather than what's going in front of my ******* nose in plain sight:

MG Rover
Lehmann Bros
etc.

What time does that Derren guy come on again?