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Accepting where we are

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artetas_biggest_fan said:
Chelsea have always had glamour though. Their location the main cause of that one.

I wasn't around in the 60's but was Everton fashionable then? Certainly haven't been in my lifetime. No iconic managers, run down stadium. The only really iconic thing is Dixie Dean, but he's known solely by us as pre war is ignored. Handing out sweets is about it (bit like West Ham and their bubbles).

We lack an instantly identifiable feature that other clubs have. United (Busby Babes, Best/Law/Charlton, Old Trafford "theatre of dreams"), RS (Shankly, Anfield/The Kop, YNWA), Arsenal have lost some of their lustre by leaving Highbury and the marble halls, but as a club they are still associated with style. Those three have always stood out a mile.

Spurs, they have the London factor, plus are known for their history of classy domestic (Hoddle, Waddle, Gazza) and foreign players (Villa, Ardiles, Klinsmann)..eyecatching football albeit unsuccessful.

Man City are the only ones of the top six who weren't fashionable or have much of an identity prior to the Sheik.


We have the money (over 235 million spent in under 2 years) but we can't draw the top players or a top manager. French journalist Julien Laurens kinda sums up how we are perceived when talking about where Jean Seri could move to:

"It looks like Everton are leading the race. But when you are so close to Barcelona I don't think it's the greatest feeling to be linked with Everton. But he wants to leave and they might let him go for the right price. I still think he is a very good player and he would be a great addition to this Everton team but he could do better."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42620798
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Oh dear.
 
goodisonopheliac said:
What can we as fans do? Not go to matches (and I don't anyway as a rule)? Send Allardyce or Kenwright death threats? Have a sit-in? Scream abuse at the players? Smash up Goodison Park? I mean, if I cheer the team, even if we lose or draw, I'll probably get accused of accepting mediocrity for not booing them off instead. I always cheered the team on in the late 90s, did we magically get better? No, we did not.

End of the day, me whingeing on GOT will do nothing. Nichts. Nada. Nul. Sam Allardyce does not care what I think. Bill Kenwright does not care what I think. Neither does Moshiri, and neither do the squad. And why should they? I'm no-one to them. I don't NEED to have a high standard, I don't need to do anything. If I expect Everton to be United, all I'll get is endless disappointment and people calling me delusional.
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goodisonopheliac said:
What, so I'm supposed to switch teams just because I don't expect Everton to be Chelsea?

How do we demand it? What do you propose we do as fans? I want something concrete here.
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You've read far too much into this, nobody is holding you personally responsible for the mess at Everton, whether you go to the match and cheer/boo or sit on your arse and watch us on the TV.

Accepting/Acknowledging that we are mediocre doesn't make you part of the problem, it just helps to have realistic targets for the club going forward. We have taken 1 step forward and 2 steps back numerous times in the last 18 months and that falls on the people running the club, not me, not you, it's all on them. I thought more success might be just round the corner at the start of the season, I've changed my view on that having seen how the season has unfolded so far and realise that it's likely to be a good number of years before we are where we'd all like to be, accepting that doesn't make me a worse fan.
 
Bungle said:
So, it saddens me to say that I've accepted what we are as it stands, a poor mid table premier league club which doesn't look like an attractive proposition to the players we need to help us progress, one where the best youth players will be sold off to balance the books, or simply because they request to leave as silverware at Everton is unlikely.


Anyway, there'd be far less angst if we just kind of accepted where we are and stopped trying to pretend we're still something we're not, stop with the utter delusion that pours out of a good number of us. I still have hope that one day we'll get back to the top of English football, but for the time being and with the staff the club currently chose to employ I've put any of those thoughts to the back of my mind.​
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Chelsea were a poor mid table top flight club (when they were in the league) for 90 years of their history. And look where they are now. Man City were a poor mid table top flight club that yoyo-ed between leagues and that was within recent history, and look were they are now.

BOTH are arguably the two most powerful clubs right now.​

Football is not set in stone.

You go back to 1990 and tell Liverpool fans they wouldn't win a league title for the next 30 years and constantly lose their very best players and they'd laugh in your face. You go back to 2004 and tell Arsenal fans that their "invincibles" side is the last team that will win the league for the next 15 years and they'd constantly lose their very best players and they'd laugh in your face.

Accepting "were you are" in Football is stupid. Fans must have ambitions for their club. If you want to look at delusion go to the West Ham or Southampton boards. A West Ham fan told me the other day that West Ham are the biggest club outside the top 4.


What does annoy me, are the fans on here having a go at Moshiri and being frustrated at the football club of late. It's like they're never watched Everton between 1988-2015. You know, when the rot set in thanks to a local lad coming on board, then taking over as chairman and Everton showed ZERO ambition?

Your post is 17 years too late Bungle.
 

riddick said:
I wonder how people perceive us to Spurs right now. We've won loooads more in our history but they are much much much better in the present.
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Spoke to a Utd fan I know about this very thing yesterday and he said that he sees Everton as being on a par with Spurs despite our current league position.
 
artetas_biggest_fan said:
Chelsea have always had glamour though. Their location the main cause of that one.

I wasn't around in the 60's but was Everton fashionable then? Certainly haven't been in my lifetime. No iconic managers, run down stadium. The only really iconic thing is Dixie Dean, but he's known solely by us as pre war is ignored. Handing out sweets is about it (bit like West Ham and their bubbles).

We lack an instantly identifiable feature that other clubs have. United (Busby Babes, Best/Law/Charlton, Old Trafford "theatre of dreams"), RS (Shankly, Anfield/The Kop, YNWA), Arsenal have lost some of their lustre by leaving Highbury and the marble halls, but as a club they are still associated with style. Those three have always stood out a mile.

Spurs, they have the London factor, plus are known for their history of classy domestic (Hoddle, Waddle, Gazza) and foreign players (Villa, Ardiles, Klinsmann)..eyecatching football albeit unsuccessful.

Man City are the only ones of the top six who weren't fashionable or have much of an identity prior to the Sheik.


We have the money (over 235 million spent in under 2 years) but we can't draw the top players or a top manager. French journalist Julien Laurens kinda sums up how we are perceived when talking about where Jean Seri could move to:

"It looks like Everton are leading the race. But when you are so close to Barcelona I don't think it's the greatest feeling to be linked with Everton. But he wants to leave and they might let him go for the right price. I still think he is a very good player and he would be a great addition to this Everton team but he could do better."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42620798
Click to expand...

Well in the late 80's, only Liverpool won more league titles than us.I think we do have an instantly identifiable feature.We were known as the school of science back in the day, and the holy trinity of Kendall Ball and Harvey.We had Dixie Dean, the man who scored more goals in a season than anyone.So we are one of the truly great names of english football.

The last 30 years have been tough at times.But we need to remember our heritage, and our identity as a club.And before the sky sports era, we were known all over Britain and beyond, for great football, great players, and winning.To be fair now i see us a much bigger club than Spurs.Spurs have only won two league titles.The most recent back in 1961!
 
mikeh72 said:
But why would you do that? Recent history is still history. Chelsea have won the Champions League, two cup winners cups, the Europa League, two more FA Cups than us, over half as many league titles in the last 13 years alone as we've won in our history, and 5 League cups, which we've never won. They are a bigger club than us.
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Yes but traditionally we were the bigger club.They were nothing, until their Russian sugar daddy came along.And we still have 9 league titles, to Chelseas 6 league titles.
 
Cork Evertonian said:
Well in the late 80's, only Liverpool won more league titles than us.I think we do have an instantly identifiable feature.We were known as the school of science back in the day, and the holy trinity of Kendall Ball and Harvey.We had Dixie Dean, the man who scored more goals in a season than anyone.So we are one of the truly great names of english football.

The last 30 years have been tough at times.But we need to remember our heritage, and our identity as a club.And before the sky sports era, we were known all over Britain and beyond, for great football, great players, and winning.To be fair now i see us a much bigger club than Spurs.Spurs have only won two league titles.The most recent back in 1961!
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Kendall, Ball and Harvey, like Dean, is only known to us. TBH i only really learned about them on sites like this one. When I say instantly identifiable features im referring to everyone who follows the sport, not just to us.

We had an uncharismatic manager in the 60s who almost no-one outside the club could name, and it's the 1960s when sport in the media took off. Kendall wasn't the most charismatic either. The PL era we have been like Villa, anonymous, making up the numbers. The one time when the spotlight was on us, Rooney's early years, he left at 18.

Look at the media, very few ex players. It's filled with United, RS and the Arse. We have lacked big name glamorous players.
 

artetas_biggest_fan said:
Kendall, Ball and Harvey, like Dean, is only known to us. TBH i only really learned about them on sites like this one. When I say instantly identifiable features im referring to everyone who follows the sport, not just to us.

We had an uncharismatic manager in the 60s who almost no-one outside the club could name, and it's the 1960s when sport in the media took off. Kendall wasn't the most charismatic either. The PL era we have been like Villa, anonymous, making up the numbers. The one time when the spotlight was on us, Rooney's early years, he left at 18.

Look at the media, very few ex players. It's filled with United, RS and the Arse. We have lacked big name glamorous players.
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I don't know.All im concerned about about is trophies and honours.And on that count we are the fourth most successful club in english football.Alan Ball was man of the match in a world cup final!We signed him on the back of that.Who cares if the late great Howard Kendall didn't have the media profile of a Brian Clough.When he was manager in his first spell, we couldn't stop winning.

The likes of Clough were attention seeking loudmouths.Howard Kendall let his team, do the talking for him on the pitch.If people don't see us as the great footballing institution that we are, then those people aren't worthy of our time and attention.Harry Catterick was the same.Just because he wasn't a loudmouth like Bill Shankly means nothing.He won more accumulated league points as a manager, than the more high profile Shankly Busby and Revie.Catterick created that great 1970 league title winning team.He designed and built two league title winning teams.
 
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Cork Evertonian said:
Yes but traditionally we were the bigger club.They were nothing, until their Russian sugar daddy came along.And we still have 9 league titles, to Chelseas 6 league titles.
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So what though? The last 20 years have happened you know. How good we were before the Premier League era doesn't mean anything anymore, they are bigger than us.
 
Yarrgh said:
If a team of young players like United's class of 92 came through now with the right manager and a couple of canny old pros and a magician like Cantona, would you give them a chance? Say a team with half the U23 world cup winning squad in it? There's a way right there. How bad is it that we are supposed to accept Big Fat Sam addled mediocrity?
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i have hope for young players, but when theyre not staying and being poached by "bigger" clubs, it's hard to build. I also am disenchanted with loyalty in football, my favourite player since he has broken through was Barkley, and now he's left I have so little faith in any player staying it's not true. I think it's such a negative time to be a football fan, never mind of a football team as poorly managed as our own
 
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