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Ademola Lookman

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catcherintherye said:
The issue to me in all of this, over and above people reading his body language is the contractual situation. He has 2 years left.

I always remembered with Barkley thinking, over and above it being a perfect storm that his form flounced with the season ending leaving him 2 years to go and enormous upheaval happening that summer, that there was a lack of strong and decisive leadership at the club to allow him to continue on that season without signing. With young players, as things currently stand, if you let them go much beyond the 2 years left on the contract stage you are asking for trouble. It becomes widely known they are going and you're ability to command fees drops.

If he will not sign a contract this summer, Brands will be left with little choice but to move him on. If he had 4, or even 3 years left there is some flexibility. However with 2 years left the likelihood is his value goes 1 way, which we saw with Barkley. I can't imagine Brands taking such a chance.

I have never been too bothered about body language. I think part of it is just his natural demeanour, he will never look like a Calvert Lewin who busts a gut. His game is about precision, acute moments of quality in the most congested area of the field. It would be hard to judge body language off that. I also appreciate he may not have settled. However I am a believer that you can settle very easily if things suddenly take an upturn in your life or work. If he started banging goals in like Richarlinson last season and was called up to the England squad suddenly he'd be very settled. Likewise the body language experts soon go away as frankly nobody really cares how you look if you are producing the goods.

What can't be written off though is the contractual situation. He will soon be in a very powerful situation with the club, and I'm sure his agent if it goes much beyond this summer will be saying to hang in and he will likely get a pretty decent pay day (ah la Barkley). I can't see us allowing it.

Fortunately things have conspired reasonably well for us. Tottenham seem to have more freedom to spend now. Hassunhutl is now at an English club with reasonable funds to spend. Palace are also going to have an enormous amount of money to spend this summer and the requirement for a winger. Thats before you mention clubs like Leipzig who I'm sure will be interested. So there's a chance he holds his value, or even we get more money than we expect from a Palace.

The idea of course is he signs a deal. However we tried in vain in hoping if we just played Ross he'd see the light and sign. I can't see us making the same mistake.
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Never thought about his contract. That sort of crept up on the blind side.

Yeah I agree that we need to avoid another Barkley happening. If Zaha goes, which seems likely, we could help Palace offload some of their windfall. It would make a change from it going over the park, and I'm sure we could negotiate a better deal than if we sold him to Germany. It could actually finance a big chunk of the cost of Malcolm, Neres or Under, which would be seen as good business in anyone's eyes.

It doesn't alter the fact that he would still need replacing in the squad unless we decided to keep hold of Walcott which is an option. Or maybe got a work permit for Henry.

My previous post was not so much about Lookman specifically, but about our need for squad fringe players. If we didn't have them then a bad run of injuries would see us exposed to youth players.
 
catcherintherye said:
It's a good point, and I have little doubt Lookman and Vlasic will go on to have very good careers. That being said the answer to the question, at the real nitty gritty level from Chelsea would be that the above players would never have developed to be the players they became had they have stayed at Chelsea, so it's an academic discussion. That is very much their big problem now. They have enormous quality at under 25 level all the way through to under 16 every season. They don't bring players through as they ought too.

I posited some time back, that if we were signing younger players not all of them will work out, or even that some of them will work out and we will sell them on too. It may just be, that for them to continue their development it needs to be away from Everton. There's a similar problem too. I hope it's a question we consider if we lose Vlasic and Lookman, namely why wasn't Everton the right club for them to progress. However it's hard to say Silva could have done much more. Some blame will lie with Allardyce/Koeman.

In such circumstances you get what money you can. We pay around 8 for both of them and will double, if not treble our investments on them, which is no bad thing. In the premier league you can't have a team of 21 year olds. You can have 1 or 2. So if we are not playing some of them, if we can give them enough exposure to increase their value and seek a profit that is still a positive for me.
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This is a myth. Spurs had the youngest team in the league when they first competed for CL. Good players are good players. The issue is finding a whole team of good players at that age and not that they're 21.

We have to be a place where young players get better. It's going to be impossible to get the types of players who push us into title contention otherwise. We don't have the money or prestige.
 


TheBigIguana said:
This is a myth. Spurs had the youngest team in the league when they first competed for CL. Good players are good players. The issue is finding a whole team of good players at that age and not that they're 21.

We have to be a place where young players get better. It's going to be impossible to get the types of players who push us into title contention otherwise. We don't have the money or prestige.
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Well thats probably true, but it wasn't a team of 21 year olds. Most successful teams tend to have an average age of around 26-27 years of age. Thats the magic spot.

I agree wholeheartedly with your 2nd point. However it's important that we don't become dogmatic with it. Unfortunately there will always need to be a balance between having young players for the first team and getting the best fees possible for ones who we may not be able to afford time too.

I have stated that we may need to look at why Vlasic and Lookman, over the last 2 years haven't had more exposure in an Everton team who have been pretty dire over that time.
 
catcherintherye said:
It's a good point, and I have little doubt Lookman and Vlasic will go on to have very good careers. That being said the answer to the question, at the real nitty gritty level from Chelsea would be that the above players would never have developed to be the players they became had they have stayed at Chelsea, so it's an academic discussion. That is very much their big problem now. They have enormous quality at under 25 level all the way through to under 16 every season. They don't bring players through as they ought too.

I posited some time back, that if we were signing younger players not all of them will work out, or even that some of them will work out and we will sell them on too. It may just be, that for them to continue their development it needs to be away from Everton. There's a similar problem too. I hope it's a question we consider if we lose Vlasic and Lookman, namely why wasn't Everton the right club for them to progress. However it's hard to say Silva could have done much more. Some blame will lie with Allardyce/Koeman.

In such circumstances you get what money you can. We pay around 8 for both of them and will double, if not treble our investments on them, which is no bad thing. In the premier league you can't have a team of 21 year olds. You can have 1 or 2. So if we are not playing some of them, if we can give them enough exposure to increase their value and seek a profit that is still a positive for me.
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HUGE call this. What a leap!
 

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