are Britain & Germany friends or foes?

[dholliday]

Whilst Germans today can never be blamed for what their grandfathers and great grandfathers did, as a country they should never be allowed to forget which it seems like they are trying to do.

This is completely wrong, Nik. Germany is full of remembrance for the war.

Germany isn't alone in being guilty in its history of crimes against humanity. Any other nation which perpetrated atrocities should never be allowed to forget. And fortunately most developed nations who committed terrible crimes against humanity in the past do try to make it right, and do allow objective historical analysis.

And getting into a debate about which crimes against humanity rank the worst is willy-waving of the wrong kind, I reckon...so let's not go there.


You ever visited our capital city? Most visitors who come here to learn a bit about the place go home wide-eyed at the astonishing recent history of it. It's one thing to read about it, but it's quite another to actually be here and feel it.

My flat overlooks where the old wall was. If the wall was still here, I could look over it (I'm right on the border on the old west side). About 500 meters away from me there is a WW2 bunker. The rest of the city has dozens, even hundreds, of known places which are tied with the history of the 20th century.


On the other hand, Berlin is but a city. Full of normal people going to work and making family. It's not mystic once you live and work here. So in that respect we don't stop to think every day about the war, we've got life stuff to do. But the remembrance is there and no one wishes to forget.

 

[Bungle]

My flat overlooks where the old wall was. If the wall was still here, I could look over it (I'm right on the border on the old west side). About 500 meters away from me there is a WW2 bunker.

I figure this is enough info to now track him and have him assassinated isn't it?

Edit: I have traced his ip, he's at Bernauer StraBe, Berlin.

 

[dholliday]

I figure this is enough info to now track him and have him assassinated isn't it?

Edit: I have traced his ip, he's at Bernauer StraBe, Berlin.

i could do with an attempted hit, life's got a bit samey lately.

 

[Bungle]

i could do with an attempted hit, life's got a bit samey lately.

Shame the lads have got you on ignore, they're missing a real opportunity here haha

Sorry back on topic, I've never forgiven the Lampard goal that wasn't given, I was caught in two minds, I don't like Lampard, so it was funny to see him nearly cry, but I'd rather Germany got knocked out so there's that. Anyway even if we levelled it at 2-2 we'd have still got bummed second half.

 

[Huyton Layne]

I think it does.

Whilst Germans today can never be blamed for what their grandfathers and great grandfathers did, as a country they should never be allowed to forget which it seems like they are trying to do.

Britain should never be allowed to forget the terrible things they did for centuries. Slavery for instance? Don't see anything in Britain commemorating or apologizing for it and it was only abolished in the 1800s.

 

[roydo]

Britain should never be allowed to forget the terrible things they did for centuries. Slavery for instance? Don't see anything in Britain commemorating or apologizing for it and it was only abolished in the 1800s.

Cameron did mate. And we abolished it remember? And there is a big commeration down here in Bristol.

But we were no angels, thats for sure.

 

[dholliday]

Anyway even if we levelled it at 2-2 we'd have still got bummed second half.

I was in the stadium for this, and all the English fans were graceful in defeat, shaking the hands of us German fans, and all said the same thing: that had the Lampard goal went in, Germany would still have comfortably won.

I was in a corner of the stadium as a lone German surrounded by Engländers and the odd African. No trouble at all (and I was quite loud). I only managed to even get to the game as two England fans (one is an old police colleague of Howard Webb) I met 12 hours before kick-off gave me a lift from Joburg to Bloemfontein (500km ffs). We even had my German flag draped on one side of the car, and their St George draped on the other. Top blokes.

Found a new respect for England fans generally after that game. Genuinely hope England finally do well at a big tournament this summer.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I think it does.

Whilst Germans today can never be blamed for what their grandfathers and great grandfathers did, as a country they should never be allowed to forget which it seems like they are trying to do.

Don't agree. It's all of us who shouldn't forget.

What you're implying is that they should carry some residual guilt for the actions of their political forbearers. Should we feel continually remember the days of the Empire & our building of the 'commonwealth'???

 

[fatshark]

Sorry back on topic, I've never forgiven the Lampard goal that wasn't given, I was caught in two minds, I don't like Lampard, so it was funny to see him nearly cry, but I'd rather Germany got knocked out so there's that. Anyway even if we levelled it at 2-2 we'd have still got bummed second half.

So are you friends with the Germans or not? If a group of them had walked into a group of you on the streets of Bloemfontein before that game, would it have been a bit of pip pip cheerio what what, or something a little more medieval?

 

[dholliday]

So are you friends with the Germans or not? If a group of them had walked into a group of you on the streets of Bloemfontein before that game, would it have been a bit of pip pip cheerio what what, or something a little more medieval?

It was all a bit "wwwwwwwaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy!!!!!" banter, 'tis all. German fans were massively outnumbered too. Outside the stadium and inside. About 80/20 in favour of the English, I reckon.

 

[larrygobfiend]

I think it does.

Whilst Germans today can never be blamed for what their grandfathers and great grandfathers did, as a country they should never be allowed to forget which it seems like they are trying to do.

You could say us 'British' shouldn't be allowed to forget some of the crimes of the British empire.

Here's a few chestnuts for you to mull over
http://listverse.com/2014/02/04/10-evil-crimes-of-the-british-empire/

Anyway, I'm a big fan of Germany. I find the people really friendly and the whole "dour" and "boring" crap is a massive generalisation.

Plus away to Nuremberg was ace.

 

[EFCNIK]

You could say us 'British' shouldn't be allowed to forget some of the crimes of the British empire.

Here's a few chestnuts for you to mull over
http://listverse.com/2014/02/04/10-evil-crimes-of-the-british-empire/

Anyway, I'm a big fan of Germany. I find the people really friendly and the whole "dour" and "boring" crap is a massive generalisation.

Plus away to Nuremberg was ace.

Why the '' over British?

Anyway, no we shouldn't forget and we certainly don't try to. We try and make up for it at every bloody opportunity even still. Germans should be forgiven but not forgotten. We still haven't been forgiven.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Why the '' over British?

Anyway, no we shouldn't forget and we certainly don't try to. We try and make up for it at every bloody opportunity even still. Germans should be forgiven but not forgotten. We still haven't been forgiven.

Garbage that. I've never felt a days shame for anything done by the British in a bygone era, as it wasn't my doing & I had no way of standing against it, due to not being born like.....The average Brit doesn't give a knack whether the nation has been forgiven by whoever for whatever, it's simply not present in the populations psyche.

 

[larrygobfiend]

Why the '' over British?

Anyway, no we shouldn't forget and we certainly don't try to. We try and make up for it at every bloody opportunity even still. Germans should be forgiven but not forgotten. We still haven't been forgiven.

I don't think they have forgotten though. Have you been to Berlin and seen any of the monuments or museums etc?

From what I gather it was a pretty grim existence for Berliners up until the 90's so it would be pretty difficult for them to forget.

What makes you think they've forgotten?

 

[Bungle]

So are you friends with the Germans or not? If a group of them had walked into a group of you on the streets of Bloemfontein before that game, would it have been a bit of pip pip cheerio what what, or something a little more medieval?

I'd have stoned them all to death