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Ashley Williams

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I think he's a good manager, proven it already in many ways. I just have that extended bad run S'ton had in the back of mind from last season when they couldn't win for a couple of months. he got them out of it, but their lot have no expectations nor bring any pressure on their managers as long as it's bobbing along midtable. Here he would have a fire under him. It'll be interesting to see how he reacts to the first bit of crowd criticism.

Dave, I don't mean this in an argumentative way, but I distinctly remember you saying we should stick with Martinez, that 11th wasn't underperforming because of something about the changing dynamic of the league and I certainly don't remember you having any doubts about him in any of the many poor runs we went through under him in the last two years, so I'm struggling to understand why you'd be skeptical about a guy who had two good seasons with two Europa League finishes (more than Martinez managed with a supposedly better squad in 3 years) with one poor run of results in there when his team had a huge injury crisis.
 
Dave, I don't mean this in an argumentative way, but I distinctly remember you saying we should stick with Martinez, that 11th wasn't underperforming because of something about the changing dynamic of the league and I certainly don't remember you having any doubts about him in any of the many poor runs we went through under him in the last two years, so I'm struggling to understand why you'd be skeptical about a guy who had two good seasons with two Europa League finishes (more than Martinez managed with a supposedly better squad in 3 years) with one poor run of results in there when his team had a huge injury crisis.
First thing on Martinez: I had no doubts about his ability to do something here because he's already proven in his first season here he could fashion a team playing a certain brand of football that could finish as high as anyone had a right to expect in the PL with such players. Seeing was believing. Stepping into the post-Moyes era and doing it differently and better took some nerve and coaching. So whatever happened later was viewed through that prism, and I make no apology for doing so. At the end of the day the feller was not strong enough character wise to use his second summer here with his stock high to deconstruct the squad he inherited off Moyes and go with a new generation of players in the direction he wanted. That was his big blunder: carrying on with players who essentially had always - despite that first season - kept faith with the football of his predecessor and wouldn't ever put themselves on the line for Martinez. If he'd done one simple thing like sell Stones last season and brought Williams here from Swansea (a player he'd signed for them in the first place), he'd still have his job now. But he wouldn't upset players he had, and he paid the price....but even them there could have been a get out of gaol card with a cup win last season...that's how close it all was.

Ok, Koeman: I'm not skeptical about Koeman having the ability to give us the 5th-8th spot we've come to expect in the past. He has the ability, it looks to me, to get us there. Talent + disciplined players will get you there and Koeman can provide the discipline that's slipped of late. I just dont so easily buy into the belief that he shows us any previous evidence that he can mould a team that can play the sort of audacious football that gets you a sniff of the CL spots. He builds athletic teams with a lot of power and pace. It can frighten and beat some top teams if they're not prepared to match those qualities. But I dont see the creativity in Koeman's outfits that allow a team to find that bit extra and secure the massive points totals we require to trouble the elite of this league. His first season at S'ton they played some nice stuff, and I compare that season very favourably with the huff and puff of last season's S'ton team. The difference between the two was not replacing a flair player like Lallana. I see us being more like his second season S'ton team than his first team there. And I just dont think an overwhelming emphasis on pace and power troubles the upper echelons of this league enough to have them looking over their shoulders fearful of their CL places.
 
First thing on Martinez: I had no doubts about his ability to do something here because he's already proven in his first season here he could fashion a team playing a certain brand of football that could finish as high as anyone had a right to expect in the PL with such players. Seeing was believing. Stepping into the post-Moyes era and doing it differently and better took some nerve and coaching. So whatever happened later was viewed through that prism, and I make no apology for doing so. At the end of the day the feller was not strong enough character wise to use his second summer here with his stock high to deconstruct the squad he inherited off Moyes and go with a new generation of players in the direction he wanted. That was his big blunder: carrying on with players who essentially had always - despite that first season - kept faith with the football of his predecessor and wouldn't ever put themselves on the line for Martinez. If he'd done one simple thing like sell Stones last season and brought Williams here from Swansea (a player he'd signed for them in the first place), he'd still have his job now. But he wouldn't upset players he had, and he paid the price....but even them there could have been a get out of gaol card with a cup win last season...that's how close it all was.

Ok, Koeman: I'm not skeptical about Koeman having the ability to give us the 5th-8th spot we've come to expect in the past. He has the ability, it looks to me, to get us there. Talent + disciplined players will get you there and Koeman can provide the discipline that's slipped of late. I just dont so easily buy into the belief that he shows us any previous evidence that he can mould a team that can play the sort of audacious football that gets you a sniff of the CL spots. He builds athletic teams with a lot of power and pace. It can frighten and beat some top teams if they're not prepared to match those qualities. But I dont see the creativity in Koeman's outfits that allow a team to find that bit extra and secure the massive points totals we require to trouble the elite of this league. His first season at S'ton they played some nice stuff, and I compare that season very favourably with the huff and puff of last season's S'ton team. The difference between the two was not replacing a flair player like Lallana. I see us being more like his second season S'ton team than his first team there. And I just dont think an overwhelming emphasis on pace and power troubles the upper echelons of this league enough to have them looking over their shoulders fearful of their CL places.

Good post that

I don't entirely agree about your assessment on Martinez's failures but that's water under the bridge now

For what it's worth, despite it being off topic, I share your reservations re Koeman. Having said that, he demonstrated enough at Southampton with a much smaller budget to merit being given a crack here, regardless of style of play.

On the style bit - I think it's early days yet to make that generalisation given some of the sides he managed before he got to England, but there's clearly more emphasis on pace and power than under Martinez, that much seems clear already.
 
Good post that

I don't entirely agree about your assessment on Martinez's failures but that's water under the bridge now

For what it's worth, despite it being off topic, I share your reservations re Koeman. Having said that, he demonstrated enough at Southampton with a much smaller budget to merit being given a crack here, regardless of style of play.

On the style bit - I think it's early days yet to make that generalisation given some of the sides he managed before he got to England, but there's clearly more emphasis on pace and power than under Martinez, that much seems clear already.
...could all change in the next few days if/when new players arrive.

I think we need a creative player that can make things happen from almost nothing, because there will be a lot of games when power and pace wont get the job done. We need a Mata-type in before Wednesday is over.
 
...could all change in the next few days if/when new players arrive.

I think we need a creative player that can make things happen from almost nothing, because there will be a lot of games when power and pace wont get the job done. We need a Mata-type in before Wednesday is over.

This is the hardest position to fill in, west ham and Leicester have shown tho that playmakers are out there. Just wish we had our own young tottti
Koke or Ramsey would be a dream but no chance
 

This is the hardest position to fill in, west ham and Leicester have shown tho that playmakers are out there. Just wish we had our own young tottti
Koke or Ramsey would be a dream but no chance
I'm not sure it will be filled. I hope I'm wrong because it will be a major mistake to rely on who we have now to craft unlikely openings. None of them look up to it.
 
I'm not sure it will be filled. I hope I'm wrong because it will be a major mistake to rely on who we have now to craft unlikely openings. None of them look up to it.

If Isco is on the market, then do our best to get him. If not try for Ramsey or he still in the first 11?
 
First thing on Martinez: I had no doubts about his ability to do something here because he's already proven in his first season here he could fashion a team playing a certain brand of football that could finish as high as anyone had a right to expect in the PL with such players. Seeing was believing. Stepping into the post-Moyes era and doing it differently and better took some nerve and coaching. So whatever happened later was viewed through that prism, and I make no apology for doing so. At the end of the day the feller was not strong enough character wise to use his second summer here with his stock high to deconstruct the squad he inherited off Moyes and go with a new generation of players in the direction he wanted. That was his big blunder: carrying on with players who essentially had always - despite that first season - kept faith with the football of his predecessor and wouldn't ever put themselves on the line for Martinez. If he'd done one simple thing like sell Stones last season and brought Williams here from Swansea (a player he'd signed for them in the first place), he'd still have his job now. But he wouldn't upset players he had, and he paid the price....but even them there could have been a get out of gaol card with a cup win last season...that's how close it all was.

Ok, Koeman: I'm not skeptical about Koeman having the ability to give us the 5th-8th spot we've come to expect in the past. He has the ability, it looks to me, to get us there. Talent + disciplined players will get you there and Koeman can provide the discipline that's slipped of late. I just dont so easily buy into the belief that he shows us any previous evidence that he can mould a team that can play the sort of audacious football that gets you a sniff of the CL spots. He builds athletic teams with a lot of power and pace. It can frighten and beat some top teams if they're not prepared to match those qualities. But I dont see the creativity in Koeman's outfits that allow a team to find that bit extra and secure the massive points totals we require to trouble the elite of this league. His first season at S'ton they played some nice stuff, and I compare that season very favourably with the huff and puff of last season's S'ton team. The difference between the two was not replacing a flair player like Lallana. I see us being more like his second season S'ton team than his first team there. And I just dont think an overwhelming emphasis on pace and power troubles the upper echelons of this league enough to have them looking over their shoulders fearful of their CL places.
pace and some power won Leicester the title by 10 points well ahead of the so called upper echelon teams
 


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