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Back to a David Moyes team

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madden95 said:
This is the weirdest thing i have read, how are we like moyes team, we are signing players we couldnt imagine. we are miles better off than we was. we have signed players ready to win now we need to win now we need to bridge the gap now. we have waited long enough for trophies we have singed winners. right now we signed the 2 captains of the teams in the Europa league final last year. ramirez comes from barca. pickford just won the euros. keane played for man united and england. we are trying to sign more too. girouds won things i get what your saying but we are buying players for the future. 6m on 17 year old cb. bowler. lookman. calvert lewin. henry. support us and koeman instead off talking our manager down he is not moyes. he is a born winner we are lucky to have him really. he is honest to the fans doesnt bullshit us. lets be happy we our improving and get behind everyone in the club. this is a special time to be an evertonian.
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Oh well done....
Bloody well done..
You have made my Monday morning... I almost fist pumped the air.
 
madden95 said:
This is the weirdest thing i have read, how are we like moyes team, we are signing players we couldnt imagine. we are miles better off than we was. we have signed players ready to win now we need to win now we need to bridge the gap now. we have waited long enough for trophies we have singed winners. right now we signed the 2 captains of the teams in the Europa league final last year. ramirez comes from barca. pickford just won the euros. keane played for man united and england. we are trying to sign more too. girouds won things i get what your saying but we are buying players for the future. 6m on 17 year old cb. bowler. lookman. calvert lewin. henry. support us and koeman instead off talking our manager down he is not moyes. he is a born winner we are lucky to have him really. he is honest to the fans doesnt bullshit us. lets be happy we our improving and get behind everyone in the club. this is a special time to be an evertonian.
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...I don't think Pickford won the Euros, though.
 
Zatara said:
It would be interesting to see a poll of who praised Martinez after season 1 and whose praising koeman now and slating Martinez.

I wonder what would be the reaction if wwe dropped a couple of places next season....
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2nd year Syndrome. Did this excuse work for you in the second year of the previous regime?
 
Zatara said:
If you were going to strengthen one area of the side with 50mil what would you use it on?

Personally id go for a superstar defender...cheaper, huge name to attract other players and massively improves our defence.




Premier league watchers in bars or those who randomly ask me about football...even in places which follow US sports more.

All know Lukaku...none of our other players but they know him. Not many knew rooney was a former player.
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You can buy VVD for £24m...in FIFA. Soton won't sell @£50m will they?
 
PeregrineT said:
Whine, whine whine. Whatever delusional view you had of John Stones, most of us did not. We saw him for what he was, an overpriced, flashy, turnover machine. Michael Keane is already a better player.

But you are right, nothing says cheap Ashley Williams signing like splashing 50 million on a midfielder.
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Del is another overhyped player who can't cut it in PL.
 

Zatara said:
I'm feeling quite miserable after seeing Ronald Koeman effectively tell us that Barkley is going. The fourth player classed not long ago as one of our jewels along with Stones, Lukaku and Deulofeu.

John Stones was classed by an enormous amount of people as a potentially 'world class' player and recognised as one of the jewels in our team. Sure, we can look at a variety of negatives and also the large transfer fee but in the end we lost Stones to Man City and arguably the top manager around.

The recent bids for Swansea midfielder Gylfi Sigurdsson are eerily similar to 12 months ago when we signed a 31 year old Ashley Williams to replace Stones. He had performed well for Swansea and also internationally for Wales and most people thought he would make a good stop-gap and perhaps a mentor for a truly top foreign defender last summer (who we of course never signed).

Fast forward until today and we have signed Englands long term keeper in Jordan Pickford and a man mountain and England international Michael Keane. It seems to me that the ideal partner to Keane on paper would have been John Stones.

Everton would then have, three long term English internationals and would be able to maximise on this not only on the pitch but through marketing and exposure to show young English players what they can achieve. The global marketing into Asia and other regions would be very lucrative also.

Instead of this we lost our 'jewel' and have Ashley Williams (who will turn 33 in August) and haven't brought in any 'star' centre back or any 'potential' John Stones type star.


Back to Sigurdsson, he's a great player. When he was at Reading he was always in the media and also at Swansea he's always been their top player. He'd have been a great signing for us to play with Barkley and Rooney all linking up and getting the ball to Lukaku. However, we've lost Lukaku and we're going to lose Barkley. So instead of imagining something which looks interesting on paper, we instead have the prospect of spending 50mil on a transfer fee and probably something similar on wages/bonuses for someone whose not even close to a 'Star' player or 'Potential' star player. Looks like another short-term signing to me.

A lot of people have been clamouring for Giroud. This is another Ashley Williams, he could be solid for a season, maybe even for two seasons when he turns 33. Is Giroud a 'star' player like Lukaku or a 'potential world class player...nope. So why sign him?

I'm just wondering if, as an Evertonian, I should in some way be excited by the reality of losing 4 'jewels' and replacing them with short term stopgaps Williams, Sigurdsson, Rooney and perhaps Giroud.


Looking at our squad, if we discount both the young players and the more experienced players and solely focus on the age group from 22- 29 who do we have without any 'ifs' or 'buts' about them this season and in the mid-long term?

Pickford -- Potentially the long term Everton and England number 1.
Keane -- Man Mountain and looks a solid defender who should also be a rock for England
Schneiderlin -- Our Sami Khedira who keeps us ticking along
Gana -- Energetic tackling machine

These are all top 'supporting cast' members and with Bolasie and Coleman (unknown recoveries) as well as the adaptation of Klaassen and Sandro we seen to have a collection of 'supporting cast members' and no 'stars'.

Are we becoming another 'David Moyes' side with a team aiming to be greater than the sum of its parts?

Have we recycled the squad players and our 'jewels' to go back to a workmanlike Moyes style team?

I suggest that the next few signings will show us if we're going for 'stars', potential 'stars' or players to fit into a particular system.

Other than Leicester I don't think this approach has worked for anyone so I hope any new signings surprise us in a good way and they and the u21s provide the 'star' quality we seem to be missing to break into the top 4.
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Hmmm i do see your point generally but it's really important you factor in experience.

For example, a GK of Pickford and 2 CBs of Stones and Keane would have been disastrous. Where is the experience there? Where is the leadership? The comfort in knowing one of the voices back there have been there, done it.

How many top premier league teams have that amount of inexperience in those positions? None.

So what you're saying really is, you'd have been happy to sacrifice our performance / league standing in the next few years for the sake of bloodying these potentially great players.

Sounds a lot like Martinez, whom of course you know I was a fan of.

But with a mentality like that, you have to accept that the fans won't be happy. And rightfully so. because with every passing season where we 'find ourselves', the top 6 (and others such as WHU, So'ton) spend £40m-£200m to pull away from us / catch us.

Then factor in that you get lads like Lukaku who think... I am in the top 3 strikers in the league... Utd want me...Chelsea want me......why would I wait?

So in conclusion, as much as I like you Mr Zat and you're obviously a very intelligent bloke / lady... I think this view overall is quite flawed and it fails to contextualise what football is actually like.

Enjoyed the read though mate.
 
mkrudden said:
Hmmm i do see your point generally but it's really important you factor in experience.

For example, a GK of Pickford and 2 CBs of Stones and Keane would have been disastrous. Where is the experience there? Where is the leadership? The comfort in knowing one of the voices back there have been there, done it.

How many top premier league teams have that amount of inexperience in those positions? None.

So what you're saying really is, you'd have been happy to sacrifice our performance / league standing in the next few years for the sake of bloodying these potentially great players.

Sounds a lot like Martinez, whom of course you know I was a fan of.

But with a mentality like that, you have to accept that the fans won't be happy. And rightfully so. because with every passing season where we 'find ourselves', the top 6 (and others such as WHU, So'ton) spend £40m-£200m to pull away from us / catch us.

Then factor in that you get lads like Lukaku who think... I am in the top 3 strikers in the league... Utd want me...Chelsea want me......why would I wait?

So in conclusion, as much as I like you Mr Zat and you're obviously a very intelligent bloke / lady... I think this view overall is quite flawed and it fails to contextualise what football is actually like.

Enjoyed the read though mate.
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How about Utd?
 

mkrudden said:
Hmmm i do see your point generally but it's really important you factor in experience.

For example, a GK of Pickford and 2 CBs of Stones and Keane would have been disastrous. Where is the experience there? Where is the leadership? The comfort in knowing one of the voices back there have been there, done it.

How many top premier league teams have that amount of inexperience in those positions? None.

So what you're saying really is, you'd have been happy to sacrifice our performance / league standing in the next few years for the sake of bloodying these potentially great players.

Sounds a lot like Martinez, whom of course you know I was a fan of.

But with a mentality like that, you have to accept that the fans won't be happy. And rightfully so. because with every passing season where we 'find ourselves', the top 6 (and others such as WHU, So'ton) spend £40m-£200m to pull away from us / catch us.

Then factor in that you get lads like Lukaku who think... I am in the top 3 strikers in the league... Utd want me...Chelsea want me......why would I wait?

So in conclusion, as much as I like you Mr Zat and you're obviously a very intelligent bloke / lady... I think this view overall is quite flawed and it fails to contextualise what football is actually like.

Enjoyed the read though mate.
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Zatara said:
How about Utd?
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@Zatara

You missed the most important question i feel?????????
 
Stopped taking the original post seriously when it described Stones, Delefeou and Barkley as 'jewels'. Stones hasn't progressed, Barkley has flattered to decieve for 3 years and Del was never fit enough. Only Lukaku was a jewel, so your thread is built on a false assumption.

...and what's wrong with a team being better than the sum of its parts? Surely that's the aim! It is a team sport...
 

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