Big Friedkin Rebuild

[Simon Buttle]

If we 'need' 9 ins to reach a 23 man squad then we'd be wise to fill out with 4 loans so the funds available can go on e.g 3 or 4 high value targets and 1 or 2 cheaper players.

Id say 3/4 actual money signings 23 and under types with a decent ceiling on them and lots of upside, the rest can come from frees and loans but try and keep it to 27 and under if possible (Which is what Thelwell said he wanted) Still think the first window that 777 had when they first went into Genoa is one of the best I have ever seen in terms of planning.

 

[PhilM]

The academy has been suffering huge legacy issues from previous regimes but to say there hasn’t been a massive overhaul since Thellwell came in is just false.

change takes time, you can’t expect someone to completely revamp a whole organisation over night.

I haven't implied there haven't been changes, unless I've misread what I've written, nor have I criticised Thelwell. My point was that the standards have dropped.

This is even with Thelwell's changes because he has been fighting against the financial tide; if the best staff are going elsewhere, the better players will follow.

 

[Llyrap]

I hope to goodness they know what they are doing.

No idea about PSR for this window but there is a huge difference between this window and the summer window.

Because of the chaos there needs to be some short termism. We need players that can settle in immediately and actually contribute.

When Newcastle were taken over they signed Tripper, Targett, Burn and Wood. Hardly inspiring and quite frankly looked mediocre. Guimares was different of course but the point being that they served a purpose and Eddie Howe got them out of trouble comfortably.

We need to be stabilised first and probably six wins out of 23 games means that we are safe. Ipswich and Southampton look down at the moment and so there is a fight for the 3rd spot (although it would be nice if Man City helped out).

PSR probably means that we can't afford long terms prospects this window and we have used up our domestic loans. I suspect we can't but I'd send Jack Harrison back to Leeds. There comes a point when you realise that it's just not working for you at a club when you miss goals that you would ordinarily score in your sleep. Call it the Maupay effect and Harrison had that moment (if not earlier) against Wolves, and thank goodness it was that game.

Under Dyche we desperately need someone contributing from the right. If we get someone we still have the issue of Ndiaye. Probably the best baller in the team and yet he is not a left winger and if we play someone other than Doucoure in the 10 the balance in midfield is out of kilter.

I think the priority should be left back and somebody that can sit on the ball and feed Ndiaye and whoever is on the right wing. Doucoure provides solidity but he isn't the goal threat he was before his injury 12 months ago and he slows attacks down.

In the summer I hope that we don't go all Brighton immediately.

Change of stadium may have an impact on us.

I'd give Young a further year. Not as a starter but we can't fill all of the gaps in one window and he covers both left and right sides.

I expect Mangala will not be back given that the Textor link has gone. We should keep Gueye for another year.

Full backs a priority. This is not fixable in the next two windows although 4-5 signings could make a huge difference.

 

[TheBigIguana]

You're just completely missing the point in context to be honest. My point was that I believed we would have to extend the deals of some of the players who are out of contract and/or fill the squad out with some loans and frees because trying to sign 15 new players would mean we wouldn't be able to get sufficient quality if we were paying money for them all. I'm not advocating going out spending big on stars as I've repeated numerous times. While I agree that spending more doesn't guarantee better quality, it's rather disingenuous to make out like there's no correlation at all. The players who are more highly rated generally cost more, this is a fairly well established fact.

At our level I really don’t think there is much of a correlation because “highly rated” for us is from one of two categories: young with lots of upside or proven and for some reason not being given a look by better teams. In both cases it can go horribly wrong.

You’re right the reputation will make them cost more and often that reputation means nothing. I think it’s worth us trying to be smarter and not buy players on reputation.

People clowned on Forest for the volume strategy but it’s worked out. They’ve had a bunch of failures but enough successes.

People clowned Chelsea for the same thing and it’s also working out. Yes it’ll take some time and it can start rough. I see wisdom in it.

 

[Goat]

At our level I really don’t think there is much of a correlation because “highly rated” for us is from one of two categories: young with lots of upside or proven and for some reason not being given a look by better teams. In both cases it can go horribly wrong.

You’re right the reputation will make them cost more and often that reputation means nothing. I think it’s worth us trying to be smarter and not buy players on reputation.

People clowned on Forest for the volume strategy but it’s worked out. They’ve had a bunch of failures but enough successes.

People clowned Chelsea for the same thing and it’s also working out. Yes it’ll take some time and it can start rough. I see wisdom in it.

Didnt really work out for us tho did it.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Didnt really work out for us tho did it.

It could have, we picked the wrong players. We had Lookman, Kean and Iwobi at the same time. Now all our the best attacker on clubs better than us. So I guess the other part is don’t go on a run of hiring Sam, Ancelotti, Benitez, Lampard and Dyche in a row.

 

[Goat]

It could have, we picked the wrong players. We had Lookman, Kean and Iwobi at the same time. Now all our the best attacker on clubs better than us. So I guess the other part is don’t go on a run of hiring Sam, Ancelotti, Benitez, Lampard and Dyche in a row.

Im not really sure those 3 are very good, they certainly werent for us.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Im not really sure those 3 are very good, they certainly werent for us.

Well much like that list of managers you don’t seem to have much of an eye for it. Lookman is the best player full stop on a team that could win Serie A and is fairly competitive in the CL. Kean is scoring goals even if his game is still meh on the whole. Iwobi is volatile but is finally in a position to have his baseline level be better.

They’d all be our best attacking players save for maybe N’Diaye, who btw is like two months from going down the same road as those three if Dyche remains employed here.

 

[Goat]

Well much like that list of managers you don’t seem to have much of an eye for it. Lookman is the best player full stop on a team that could win Serie A and is fairly competitive in the CL. Kean is scoring goals even if his game is still meh on the whole. Iwobi is volatile but is finally in a position to have his baseline level be better.

They’d all be our best attacking players save for maybe N’Diaye, who btw is like two months from going down the same road as those three if Dyche remains employed here.

No dispute regarding the managers and Ndiaye is indeed currently playing for a rubbish manager, but even he has always struggled with end product, previously.

Lookman and Kean werent given a chance here, but Iwobi stank the gaff out for years.

Hes doing well for fulham currently, but hes very plop.

Maybe if Jack Harrison played in Serie A he wouldnt be as bad?

Wonder where Vlasic is these days.

 

[Swartzy]

It could have, we picked the wrong players. We had Lookman, Kean and Iwobi at the same time. Now all our the best attacker on clubs better than us. So I guess the other part is don’t go on a run of hiring Sam, Ancelotti, Benitez, Lampard and Dyche in a row.

Poor Carlo, stuck in the middle of that list.

 

[Goat]

Poor Carlo, stuck in the middle of that list.

Hahahaha, didnt even notice he stuck the best manager of his generation in with Sean Dyche.

 

[Swartzy]

Hahahaha, didnt even notice he stuck the best manager of his generation in with Sean Dyche.

Neither did 'Carlo' a memory that would forever grate at you..

In fact with all his Wonders, the bloke can never get away from the filth that is Benitez, in those kind of lists.

Like an itch he can never reach to comfortably scratch away...

 

[Zatara]

I hope to goodness they know what they are doing.

No idea about PSR for this window but there is a huge difference between this window and the summer window.

Because of the chaos there needs to be some short termism. We need players that can settle in immediately and actually contribute.

When Newcastle were taken over they signed Tripper, Targett, Burn and Wood. Hardly inspiring and quite frankly looked mediocre. Guimares was different of course but the point being that they served a purpose and Eddie Howe got them out of trouble comfortably.

We need to be stabilised first and probably six wins out of 23 games means that we are safe. Ipswich and Southampton look down at the moment and so there is a fight for the 3rd spot (although it would be nice if Man City helped out).

PSR probably means that we can't afford long terms prospects this window and we have used up our domestic loans. I suspect we can't but I'd send Jack Harrison back to Leeds. There comes a point when you realise that it's just not working for you at a club when you miss goals that you would ordinarily score in your sleep. Call it the Maupay effect and Harrison had that moment (if not earlier) against Wolves, and thank goodness it was that game.

Under Dyche we desperately need someone contributing from the right. If we get someone we still have the issue of Ndiaye. Probably the best baller in the team and yet he is not a left winger and if we play someone other than Doucoure in the 10 the balance in midfield is out of kilter.

I think the priority should be left back and somebody that can sit on the ball and feed Ndiaye and whoever is on the right wing. Doucoure provides solidity but he isn't the goal threat he was before his injury 12 months ago and he slows attacks down.

In the summer I hope that we don't go all Brighton immediately.

Change of stadium may have an impact on us.

I'd give Young a further year. Not as a starter but we can't fill all of the gaps in one window and he covers both left and right sides.

I expect Mangala will not be back given that the Textor link has gone. We should keep Gueye for another year.

Full backs a priority. This is not fixable in the next two windows although 4-5 signings could make a huge difference.

Look at Newcastle's PSR issues. Trippier, Targett, Burn and Wood I suspect have contributed to their inability to reinvest.

Could be wrong but theyve flatlined looking at the short term.

They did extremely well with certain signings e.g Hall, Livramento, Guimaraes, Tonali, Gordon and Isak.

But they dont seem to have the room to build further.

TFG have to look at what clubs like Newcastle have done but do things better.

Well much like that list of managers you don’t seem to have much of an eye for it. Lookman is the best player full stop on a team that could win Serie A and is fairly competitive in the CL. Kean is scoring goals even if his game is still meh on the whole. Iwobi is volatile but is finally in a position to have his baseline level be better.

They’d all be our best attacking players save for maybe N’Diaye, who btw is like two months from going down the same road as those three if Dyche remains employed here.

Ederson and Scalvini are Atalanta's best players...not Lookman.

 

[TheBigIguana]

No dispute regarding the managers and Ndiaye is indeed currently playing for a rubbish manager, but even he has always struggled with end product, previously.

Lookman and Kean werent given a chance here, but Iwobi stank the gaff out for years.

Hes doing well for fulham currently, but hes very plop.

Maybe if Jack Harrison played in Serie A he wouldnt be as bad?

Wonder where Vlasic is these days.

Very few players are going to be good enough to figure it all out without being pointed the right direction

 

[Goat]

Very few players are going to be good enough to figure it all out without being pointed the right direction

They also need to want it.