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2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

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sageyefc said:
Questionable. Other than 7-8 of our players that are top quality the rest of our squad is filled with mid table fodder that wouldn’t look out of place at the likes of palace and Burnley

The problem is we’ve had many injury problems to a few of the said good players so the fodder have to play
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Our team is better than Palace and Burnley
 
MikeH72 said:
We do not have 7-8 players that are top quality. We have one that is, James, the rest are varying degrees of ability from absolutely terrible to very good Premier League players. You could argue Digne is pushing towards top quality.
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We still have a better squad than Crystal Palace and Burnley. The talent thing is fine if the barrier is beating good teams. We put in bad showings against bad teams and then look at our talent.
 
TheBigIguana said:
We still have a better squad than Crystal Palace and Burnley. The talent thing is fine if the barrier is beating good teams. We put in bad showings against bad teams and then look at our talent.
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I do think we have more good players than Burnley and Palace, but that doesn’t mean we’re a better team than them. The make up of our team is a complete mess, where those sides lack in quality, they at least have competent players playing in their correct positions that can do a half decent job.
 
TheBigIguana said:
I would say the biggest task any football manager has is getting his team to make the right decisions. At some point when guys aren't able to consistently it has to become a management problem.
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Not so sure I agree with that, I apologise in advance because I am going to totally butcher how I explain my thoughts.

If a manager has a proven record of winning titles, trophies with different groups of players then he becomes the constant in the development of a team. Track record, pedigree, whatever you want to call it. If his new players are unable to follow those plans and have a track record for poor decision making, sudden and extreme dips in production then it becomes easier to "blame" for want of a better word the players.

I think it's something that baseball fans have tried to appraise in hitting coaches, how much of a difference can a good hitting coach make to an average batter, most of the conclusions were that you can improve technique but it's incredibly hard to coach players out of unhelpful mental processes.
 
MikeH72 said:
We do not have 7-8 players that are top quality. We have one that is, James, the rest are varying degrees of ability from absolutely terrible to very good Premier League players. You could argue Digne is pushing towards top quality.
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I’d say James, digne, richy when he’s arsed, Allan when he’s not broke, doucoure, Mina, Godfrey are all capable of playing in a team pushing for top 6, they’ve largely showed that when they’ve all been fit together. The problem is when you’ve got back up players like pony hawk, iceberg and iwponi
 

MikeH72 said:
I do think we have more good players than Burnley and Palace, but that doesn’t mean we’re a better team than them. The make up of our team is a complete mess, where those sides lack in quality, they at least have competent players playing in their correct positions that can do a half decent job.
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I think you're giving some of those sides a lot of credit and also taking a pretty dim view of our players. We could have guys doing that if we gave them consistent jobs at least.
 
Bohemian Toffee said:
Not so sure I agree with that, I apologise in advance because I am going to totally butcher how I explain my thoughts.

If a manager has a proven record of winning titles, trophies with different groups of players then he becomes the constant in the development of a team. Track record, pedigree, whatever you want to call it. If his new players are unable to follow those plans and have a track record for poor decision making, sudden and extreme dips in production then it becomes easier to "blame" for want of a better word the players.

I think it's something that baseball fans have tried to appraise in hitting coaches, how much of a difference can a good hitting coach make to an average batter, most of the conclusions were that you can improve technique but it's incredibly hard to coach players out of unhelpful mental processes.
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I think I follow. And I'm not expecting for Carlo to take this particular team and compete, but to not have what it takes to beat some average teams regularly to me feels like at least somewhat a management breakdown.
 
sageyefc said:
I’d say James, digne, richy when he’s arsed, Allan when he’s not broke, doucoure, Mina, Godfrey are all capable of playing in a team pushing for top 6, they’ve largely showed that when they’ve all been fit together. The problem is when you’ve got back up players like pony hawk, iceberg and iwponi
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That’s not top quality though is it. A top quality player should really walk into any side in the top 6 except for maybe City. Out of those players, who would play regularly for a top 6 team? They’re good players and all worth being part of our team, but they’re not top quality. They don’t have to be, we just need a few more players at their level to replace the absolute bilge that surrounds them.
 
TheBigIguana said:
I think I follow. And I'm not expecting for Carlo to take this particular team and compete, but to not have what it takes to beat some average teams regularly to me feels like at least somewhat a management breakdown.
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Yeah, I think that's a totally reasonable viewpoint.

What are the more egregious examples of poor management you're thinking of?
 

TheBigIguana said:
I think I follow. And I'm not expecting for Carlo to take this particular team and compete, but to not have what it takes to beat some average teams regularly to me feels like at least somewhat a management breakdown.
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The current league champions lost 6 straight home games, mainly to average sides. Chelsea got walloped by a soon to be Championship team.

Everton won our last trophy against a far superior United team, (man for man).

Its called football.
 
MikeH72 said:
That’s not top quality though is it. A top quality player should really walk into any side in the top 6 except for maybe City. Out of those players, who would play regularly for a top 6 team? They’re good players and all worth being part of our team, but they’re not top quality. They don’t have to be, we just need a few more players at their level to replace the absolute bilge that surrounds them.
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I’d say other than city and the [Poor language removed] most of them players named are capable of being in the squads of the other top 6 sides yeah, and in the case of digne and James as starters. Think we’d struggle to attract players capable of being starters for the likes of city and Liverpool though, that’s a level up from top quality
 

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