2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[Terrarian]

“It seemed the players were focused but not tonight [Saturday], they were not focused and, maybe, I need to push more on that aspect to have the players more ready when the game starts"

I mean, isn't that literally his job to get the players ready?

It's not a shot saying he's failing but it seems like he's saying there players should get themselves prepared for a match when he's been here 18 months he should know that they are completely and utterly unable to do that. How does a world class manager like Carlo not see that this far in to the job?

He's used to working with professional pros who do motivate themselves, maybe he's has been a bit naive, hopefully it will change now.

 

[Shibbywiggles]

David moyes simply is a better manager than carlo ancelotti in my opinion.

That is a horrific opinion.

Quick point on knee jerk opinions after Ancelotti having one full season and not managing to get us to the champions league, Moyes finished 17th in his second full season but then after two and a half seasons he had a squad who could do what he wanted rather than what Smith left behind and we finished 4th. It also took selling the best young player of the generation for a record fee to be able to finance bringing in the players he wanted to finish 4th so if Moyes hadn’t lucked out and had Rooney come through, we likely wouldn’t have ever bought the classic Moyes era players.

Big difference in what Carlo inherited and what Moyes inherited is that Moyes inherited honest professionals who may not be that great but will always put a shift in. Carlo inherited cowards who will happily hide and contribute nothing. Look at the difference already in replacing Schneiderlin with Allan for example. Once he makes five or six more of these replacements, then he should be judged.

 

[tellmema]

In fairness to Moshiri he has turfed out 4 managers and a director of football. He’s also removed a CEO and half the board of directors.

I think there was always an underlying assumption that the squad was decent enough, a few signings and the right manager away from competing because Moyes had had us up and about there for years on a shoestring.

What has become apparent though is that he quality of the squad has declined massively from 14/15 onwards year on year and Koeman’s splurge of selling Stones Barkley Lukaku and then wasting all that money on dross has destroyed us.

Instead of a sticking plaster we’re now requiring a full rebuild which I believe has started but is taking time. We were better in 18/19 than 17/18, we took a step backwards in 19/20 (although largely caused by injuries to Gbamin Gomes Delph after selling Gueye left us short), but I believe we’ve been better this season than 18/19 and the quality of the squad is better. That’s upwards progression. The problem is it’s still not a good enough squad.

I think Moshiri has now removed every other piece and we’re just left with the inescapable truth that players such as Coleman Keane Davies Siggurdson Bernard Gomes plus every player we have on loan (except Kean) are just nowhere near good enough for where we want to be. Moshiri has his preferred team of Brands and Ancelotti. Brands has just had a new contract and Carlo has taken us from the bottom half to challenging for Europe in one full season with a higher win % than any PL manager in our history. They’re not going anywhere.

Reckoning time has come for a lot of these players and I don’t think sentiment will defend some of them now. They’ve had their days in the sun conning manager after manager as they saw them all fired but now they’ve met an immovable object. They’ve made far too many mistakes this season which have killed Ancelotti’s season right at the crucial juncture and I think it’s the death knell for a few. I’d be amazed if Davies is getting serious game time for us next season. I’d be amazed if Coleman is first choice. I’ll be amazed if Keane is first choice. I’ll be amazed if Bernard is still here. I’d be amazed if Siggurdson is first choice. They’re not enough and Carlo knows it. An injury crisis has saved them this season but hoping we stay healthy next season they’re not going to be getting onto the pitch often.

You're gonna love next season.... You're gonna be AMAZED!


P.s. I hope for us all that next season will be boring as fook for you!

 

[Terrarian]

Where did Moyes finish in his second season/first full season? asking for a friend.

 

[Terrarian]

Where did Moyes finish in his second season/first full season? asking for a friend.

03/04

Premier League

First Tier

9

12

17

45:57

-12

39

17

 

[Nymzee]

Why we still talking about Moyes? If we’d have hired him after Silva you lot would have kicked off on here big time.

 

[Terrarian]

Why we still talking about Moyes? If we’d have hired him after Silva you lot would have kicked off on here big time.

it's mental isn't it. Someone actually has said Moyes is a better manager than Carlo, crackers, the trophy cabinet says otherwise.

 

[Brisan123]

I saw that and thought the same mate. The OS rarely carries anything like that, and in truth Ancelotti has not been as forthright as that very often before. I actually thought Ancelotti looked fed up after that game. It's to be welcomed. I was worried about Pickford's comments after the game where he said something akin to "we will have to try our best I suppose" and I remember being alarmed at the casual nature of it. This is much better from Ancelotti.

The concern is we see a repeat of last season, where we just completely tail away. That could happen and we could end up 9th or 10th. I really don't want the players thinking it's party time. There are 4 very winnable games to me, and City on the last day who's focus will not be completely on that game. It's as good a run in as you could hope for.

I think there's a bigger narrative here too though, and that is what do we do when the players essentially repeat the same patterns? If some more aren't moved on, and the manager seriously backed, we will repeat this pattern in perpetuity. Whatever happens now, we have let needless points slip, and it does feel the time we need to back the manager and renevate the squad further in the summer.

I know there are the usual doom and gloom merchants saying no money, but in honesty, with no FFP and a depressed market we have a unique opportunity. We could probably add 6 or 7 strong players for not an awful lot of money. We have seen with his strongest team, the manager can go and get results with the best, but he needs more reliable footballers.

If FFP is gone for this year ( and I can’t see UEFA criticising teams for spending money in a pandemic ) then maybe Moshiri /Usmanov will see this as a last chance to get us top 4 quality players all at once
If this is the case and with BMD looming I could see a transfer kitty of 120-150 plus sales
They have their dream manager and they know whoever they get next will more than likely be a step down so they will back him to the hilt given the chance
I would not be surprised to see 5 guaranteed first teamsters bought and a couple of youngsters for the bench
The lazy attitude is rife in the squad and has to be cut out with no mercy

 

[Brisan123]

In fairness to Moshiri he has turfed out 4 managers and a director of football. He’s also removed a CEO and half the board of directors.

I think there was always an underlying assumption that the squad was decent enough, a few signings and the right manager away from competing because Moyes had had us up and about there for years on a shoestring.

What has become apparent though is that he quality of the squad has declined massively from 14/15 onwards year on year and Koeman’s splurge of selling Stones Barkley Lukaku and then wasting all that money on dross has destroyed us.

Instead of a sticking plaster we’re now requiring a full rebuild which I believe has started but is taking time. We were better in 18/19 than 17/18, we took a step backwards in 19/20 (although largely caused by injuries to Gbamin Gomes Delph after selling Gueye left us short), but I believe we’ve been better this season than 18/19 and the quality of the squad is better. That’s upwards progression. The problem is it’s still not a good enough squad.

I think Moshiri has now removed every other piece and we’re just left with the inescapable truth that players such as Coleman Keane Davies Siggurdson Bernard Gomes plus every player we have on loan (except Kean) are just nowhere near good enough for where we want to be. Moshiri has his preferred team of Brands and Ancelotti. Brands has just had a new contract and Carlo has taken us from the bottom half to challenging for Europe in one full season with a higher win % than any PL manager in our history. They’re not going anywhere.

Reckoning time has come for a lot of these players and I don’t think sentiment will defend some of them now. They’ve had their days in the sun conning manager after manager as they saw them all fired but now they’ve met an immovable object. They’ve made far too many mistakes this season which have killed Ancelotti’s season right at the crucial juncture and I think it’s the death knell for a few. I’d be amazed if Davies is getting serious game time for us next season. I’d be amazed if Coleman is first choice. I’ll be amazed if Keane is first choice. I’ll be amazed if Bernard is still here. I’d be amazed if Siggurdson is first choice. They’re not enough and Carlo knows it. An injury crisis has saved them this season but hoping we stay healthy next season they’re not going to be getting onto the pitch often.

My sentiments exactly
You don’t become a billionaire by making sentimental decisions
The same applies to becoming a successful manager
A scalpel needs to be taken to the squad

 

[Ste2018]

Has a job on his hands
City and Chelsea squads are miles clear of anybody else in the league
Liverpool, United and Leicester the next level down
Anybody else (Spurs, West Ham, Everton, Wolves, Leeds) is really competing for sixth as it stands for next season.

This season should have been the season to break into top 6.

 

[Caolam]

My sentiments exactly
You don’t become a billionaire by making sentimental decisions
The same applies to becoming a successful manager
A scalpel needs to be taken to the squad

A scalpel, more like a chainsaw, and Carlo Ancelotti is the man to do it provided he has the money to bring in replacements. Must mention the poster who thought David Moyes was a better manager than Carlo Ancelotti, that did make me chuckle.

 

[Jimishorts]

trophy cabinet says otherwise.

I’m not sure if trophies are a thing anymore for some fans.

I couldn't care less about trophies

Walk into the light @johnjoeefc

 

[h8kurdt]

David moyes simply is a better manager than carlo ancelotti in my opinion. I couldn't care less about trophies, something severely lacking by a lot of people is something called perspective. David moyes when at Everton did an unbelievable job, the kind of which hasn't been repeated by 4 or 5 managers since all with a bigger budget.

Carlo is by no means a mug and has done a very good job at most places in his career. But the perspective is that David moves at Everton on his budget was realistically competing with 14 teams to get that 5th place, the 4 above at the time were on a different planet with their budget so couldn't realistically be expected to be caught. David regularly achieved 5th and 6th places finishes. The idea that he's now doing the same at West ham is no fluke, it is further proof of his managerial ability.

The other jobs he had since leaving Everton can not be measured fairly as he simply didn't have any time to stamp his identity on those clubs.

I look at West ham now and see everything I grew up seeing watching Everton under Moyes. Their fans must be so proud of their performances and so confident that they can get a result anywhere. Everton as a comparison are the opposite. We just look terrible and one dimensional.

I will stick by Carlo for the mere fact that we have no other option at this time and it would cost too much to replace him. But I was calling for Moyes before we got Carlo and even started a thread and it got taken down. This kind of proudness from some people calling Moyes a traitor and the like is exactly the reason why we keep finding ourselves in these predicaments.

Its not all been negatives with Carlo but I dare say had we got Moyes instead we would be much much further in our progression towards the top than we are now.

Well I guess we've found the village idiot.

Ancelloti has managed to break decade long curses against Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs this season with this absolute state of a squad that he had no hand in. Decade long curses that started because Moyes would go into those matches with the now famous attitude of "taking a knife to gunfight".

How many times did Moyes actually get us in the champions league again?

 

[brieverton]

My sentiments exactly
You don’t become a billionaire by making sentimental decisions
The same applies to becoming a successful manager
A scalpel needs to be taken to the squad

I'm not sure that this applies at Everton.

Kenwright et al remained on the board and there has not been a seismic shift in that area since Moshiri arrived. Elstone left and was replaced by an in-house candidate.

It suggests to me that there is still a critical lack of accountability for performance at Everton. Managers may come and go, but the underlying culture seems to be one of comfort and tinkering, rather than putting an active strategy in place to be the best we can be as a club.

I think this filters down to the players ultimately. That just being ok, is well, ok. There is no need to demand improvement, and little in the way of consequence if you don't. With the odd exception of the manager who is left to assemble a team and squad off the back of that culture.

Moshiri was clearly constrained in his future actions before Kenwright would sell, that's my opinion.

I think he has been co-opted into the Everton culture and way of doing things since.

If neither of those things applied, nobody at the time would have argued if he had undertaken a complete purge at boardroom and senior management level, its been done at other clubs.

 

[Groucho]

David moyes simply is a better manager than carlo ancelotti in my opinion.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I liked Moyes here, but this is just wrong.