2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[Nymzee]

Have seen no evidence he has either tbh.

I remember covering his Bayern team, watching his Madrid, PSG team etc. I just... I've never known what a CA team is, in the sense you know what a Pep team is or a Klopp etc.

Not saying it's a bad thing. His teams have won loads so his football is winning football. I just don't see him as a manager with an identity and so when stuff doesn't click, it looks like a really bad mish-mash of crap.

Can’t really remember any of his teams if I’m honest outside of the odd CL game. Memorable achievements but not really memorable sides. Maybe his Milan team with Kaka.

 

[james2805]

For me he's said enough in his interviews to show that he's embarrassed at some of the performances. And that he also wants better attacking football.

He will make big changes, he always comes across as a pleasant man which he is.. but he is a winner and will do whats required. If players aren't happy after he will find them a move.

 

[BlueToff]

Can’t really remember any of his teams if I’m honest outside of the odd CL game. Memorable achievements but not really memorable sides. Maybe his Milan team with Kaka.

that's what I'm getting at.

We all know how certain managers play. But I think Ancelotti - and Zidane is another one - are more just managers who find a way to get results but without really setting a style of play in place.

It's pretty much the reason why Bayern went for Carlo after Pep. They wanted someone to not rip up what Pep had built, but who at the same time wasn't so stuck to a philosophy (as good and wide-ranging as Pep's one is).

 

[Nymzee]

that's what I'm getting at.

We all know how certain managers play. But I think Ancelotti - and Zidane is another one - are more just managers who find a way to get results but without really setting a style of play in place.

It's pretty much the reason why Bayern went for Carlo after Pep. They wanted someone to not rip up what Pep had built, but who at the same time wasn't so stuck to a philosophy (as good and wide-ranging as Pep's one is).

Well that ain’t working with this broken jigsaw squad.

 

[Kever10]

Look mate we’ve done this dance before. You think everything’s wonderful and have a go at anyone who sees things slightly differently to you. You’re doing exactly the same as you did last time it happened though; completely misrepresenting the points being made to you in a vain attempt to take the moral high ground and show everyone what a boss blue you are because you have unwavering faith in the club and will accept whatever you’re given without complaint. To be clear - again - I do not ‘argue for the side of those who think it’s perfectly valid to sack a manager after 1 season’. I do not argue for any side, I’m just giving my own thoughts. It’s not about being positive or negative, it’s just about being honest about what I think.

It's not about a moral high ground or being a boss blue either. To me, It's purely about reason. I believe in having a bit of patience for a plan to be implemented and not sacking managers every year, starting the cycle again. What we need is stability and steady progress.

All in all, the season fizzled out to a disappointing end. We had a target, we missed it. And Ancelotti will be as dumbfounded as any of us as to how/why that happened. But it boils down to a lack of quality. There were improvements, even if minimal. But because the system is rigged, it's going to take time.

Gone are the days of signing practically a whole team in 1 fell swoop. Prices are astronomical and FFP pelrevents it anyway. So we will have to do it incrementally.

 

[BlueToff]

Well that ain’t working with this broken jigsaw squad.

yeah, that's the worry for me tbh. I just hope better players help that but I don't think, as some seem to, that we'll see a team with any form of set playing style next year.

Sure we'll be hard working, and hopefully have more quality and be better for it, I just don't think we're seeing anything being built. Because a style really doesn't take 18 months to implement. Pep needed a few months, as did Klopp (who reached 2 finals in his first 8 months there). They then obviously had the backing and success to go and get better players to fit into the system. Similarly with Bielsa. He had mid-table Championship players playing in his way within a single pre-season. If Carlo had some style to implement, he'd have done it already.

 

[Nymzee]

yeah, that's the worry for me tbh. I just hope better players help that but I don't think, as some seem to, that we'll see a team with any form of set playing style next year.

Sure we'll be hard working, and hopefully have more quality and be better for it, I just don't think we're seeing anything being built. Because a style really doesn't take 18 months to implement. Pep needed a few months, as did Klopp (who reached 2 finals in his first 8 months there). They then obviously had the backing and success to go and get better players to fit into the system. Similarly with Bielsa. He had mid-table Championship players playing in his way within a single pre-season. If Carlo had some style to implement, he'd have done it already.

What did he say in the video with Rio from a while back, 4-3-3 was his favourite? I think.

 

[Lanolin]

Can I just point out that there’s another thread with a poll where only 8% - including some ‘dubious’ posters - say they want him sacked. Can we maybe stop with the constant suggestions that much of the fan base wants him gone and a handful of the most virtuous, patient, and intelligent posters are fighting off the knee jerking bedwetters like a scene from 300.

 

[BlueToff]

What did he say in the video with Rio from a while back, 4-3-3 was his favourite? I think.

Yeah think so, but then he's hardly played that this season in the end (I know, personnel, injuries etc, but we didn't see it at all since that Southampton (A) game), stuck with 4-4-2 last year. Was often 4-4-2 at Napoli. Was 4-2-3-1 I think at Bayern...

I think it's less about a formation to be fair, though. Just for example, Bielsa always plays a back three at Leeds when they go up against teams who play two strikers, but Leeds still play in the same way.

 

[Lanolin]

It's not about a moral high ground or being a boss blue either. To me, It's purely about reason. I believe in having a bit of patience for a plan to be implemented and not sacking managers every year, starting the cycle again. What we need is stability and steady progress.

All in all, the season fizzled out to a disappointing end. We had a target, we missed it. And Ancelotti will be as dumbfounded as any of us as to how/why that happened. But it boils down to a lack of quality. There were improvements, even if minimal. But because the system is rigged, it's going to take time.

Gone are the days of signing practically a whole team in 1 fell swoop. Prices are astronomical and FFP pelrevents it anyway. So we will have to do it incrementally.

I agree with that, but again you’re talking about sacking him as if that’s what I’m advocating despite me repeatedly saying I’m not. All I’m saying is I don’t see much so far to make me buy into what we’re doing. I would be right there with you calling for patience if I could see what we were trying to achieve, but I genuinely can’t. For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not claiming to be right about this. I’m not saying you’re an idiot for not agreeing with me or trying to convince people to see it the same as me, I’m just saying what I think. I will happily - in more ways than one - come back in 6 months and laugh at myself for being wrong if that’s how things go.

 

[Kever10]

Have seen no evidence he has either tbh.

I remember covering his Bayern team, watching his Madrid, PSG team etc. I just... I've never known what a CA team is, in the sense you know what a Pep team is or a Klopp etc.

Not saying it's a bad thing. His teams have won loads so his football is winning football. I just don't see him as a manager with an identity and so when stuff doesn't click, it looks like a really bad mish-mash of crap.

The irony is, all managers who have a style or "philosophy" get hammered for being stubborn when it doesn't work. Klopp and Guardiola have both had it in the last few years when they have struggled despite winning everything in the game. Fortunately for them, they also have the world's best players to pick from as well as some questionable medical practices to boot.

It's the fickle nature of the football critic. The manager has a style? Hammer him for not changing. He doesn't have a style? Hammer him having no "Identity".

Ancelotti has said a number of times, football is not a complicated game. He might not have a defined style that is unique to him, but what he does have is a track record of frustrating managers who do. There's something to be said of the intelligence of someone who can devise a plan and see it through. Let's give him a chance to do it here.

 

[The binman chronicles]

While no one has explicitly mentioned waving a magic wand, expecting him to fix the wrongs of 7 years in 1.5 COVID interrupted seasons and have us playing a certain brand of football that the man himself has told us the squad are not capable of doing, is pretty much the next best thing.

In terms of us not having settled on a recruitment strategy, I fail to see how you have come to that conclusion, when he has essentially had 1 summer window to implement it, and we are not privy to what goes on behind closed doors. If you are going to point to signings made since he took over, I would suggest that Branthwaite, Nkounkou and Godfrey point to a strategy of signing good young potential, while the signings of Allan, Doucoure and James all point to us attempting to address the woeful options we had at our disposal in midfield by instilling some instant quality. I dread to think where we would be if we had not had any of those signings this year.

No true strategy will be apparent 1 year in, 1 year in which a global pandemic affected the ability to operate, both in terms of logistics and finances, not to mention the balancing of books thanks to previous spending on players who are not at the required level and/or where signed by different regimes to play different styles of football.

As for a style of play, while it might not be what we all want, I would argue a well organised, hard working team set up to counter teams has been particularly effective, given we have won our biggest number of away games since the 80s, including 6 Away wins and 1 draw against the 9 teams who finished above us. We also did well in games that we took a lead, which shows a level of tactical nous and organisation we could've only dreamed of in years gone by. Hopefully this means that by adding quality to that foundation, we can build on this going forward. And yes, the home form was disastrous, but always against teams who we were expected to be on the front foot, which again, only highlights the obvious lack of quality that has been pointed out ad nauseum.

Like i said, both in terms of implementing a recruitment strategy and implementing a style of play, it's going to take time. As good a manager as he is, he was never going to turn this squad into 2007 AC Milan simply by being nice to them, but as a diplomatic man, he was never going to push them all under a bus and create enemies the way Koeman did either. He still needed to keep them onside as he knew he had to deal with them. He is not a fool though, he will know they are not good enough.

Roughly 60 pages of kneejerk reactions in this thread since the final whistle yesterday suggests that collectively, people either do not have the required patience, or they assumed he was going to wave his magic wand. Sadly, it doesn't exist

Stop it with all your sense and stuff there. If you can't get all agro about one of the most decorated managers in world football you're not welcome here!!

Our squad would be terrified at the mere sight of Bielsa getting out his car at Finch Farm.

Bielsa would not be able to whip our mercenaries to flog them to run everywhere at 100 mph. Get someone like him in and we would still have to replace 75% of the team to make that work.

 

[blue to the bone]

Can I just point out that there’s another thread with a poll where only 8% - including some ‘dubious’ posters - say they want him sacked. Can we maybe stop with the constant suggestions that much of the fan base wants him gone and a handful of the most virtuous, patient, and intelligent posters are fighting off the knee jerking bedwetters like a scene from 300.

An investing case study to carry out.
How many of the no voters have you on ignore.
And how many of them are people who never post .

 

[Bluestar]

yeah, that's the worry for me tbh. I just hope better players help that but I don't think, as some seem to, that we'll see a team with any form of set playing style next year.

Sure we'll be hard working, and hopefully have more quality and be better for it, I just don't think we're seeing anything being built. Because a style really doesn't take 18 months to implement. Pep needed a few months, as did Klopp (who reached 2 finals in his first 8 months there). They then obviously had the backing and success to go and get better players to fit into the system. Similarly with Bielsa. He had mid-table Championship players playing in his way within a single pre-season. If Carlo had some style to implement, he'd have done it already.

We have had a Frankenstein squad full of unshiftable proven under achievers for a few seasons. Changing the manager doesn't change that fact.

We’re all disappointed with the way things finished, but this was never going to be sorted in a season. Ancelotti attracted Rodrigues and together they are changing the profile and attractiveness of the club in a way that Silva never could.

The players at his disposal don't have the quality to implement his system.

 

[The binman chronicles]

People keep banding that we finished tenth too as something to beat him with, while that is plainly a fact it's also true it's just down to an anomaly caused by a lot of teams this year posting a good number of points. 3 points away from 7th isn't the criminal act some are saying it is. In the past three seasons it would have been good enough for 8th/7th and 7th.

Had we not had covid restrictions we would have won at least a couple of those games against the dross at home and there would have been a totally different outlook on this season.