2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[PSB1]

What on earth is happening in here?

Amateur Hour at Broadmoor Comedy Club.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I think Conte is an absolutely brilliant manager but you run into almost all of the same problems Ancelotti has. He likes working wth older players, who are more tactically aware (an Italian trait), likes to spend big money and is used to working with elite footballers to get the best from them.

There can be a debate as to who is better out of Conte/Ancelotti. Ancelotti is a bit older and achieved more, but when Conte is 60 he may have won more than Ancelotti. However they are broadly similar levels of manager who bring with them similar problems. I don't see hiring Conte as a solution for the club.

I like Conte, always have, what he did in 17/18 with Chelsea was brilliant.

I think we have to stop focussing on the managers though as these magical silver bullets to solve all of Everton’s woes immediately. This is a club that has never been competitive in the premier league. For most of that period we were financed like a championship team, and for large parts outside of Moyes and Royle we’ve had extremely poor managers and extremely poor recruitment.

We are currently in an extremely difficult situation where we are working through a legacy FFP problem of very poor players given high wages and long contracts under Koeman and Walsh. To add to that we have minimal saleable assets as a lot of the players we would consider letting go aren’t good enough to sell. Layered over this is a never ending injury crisis which keeps robbing us of first team players, saleable squad players, and even saleable youth players. It all leads to a drain on wages paying for a lot of people who cannot or are unable to contribute positively to Everton.

Now consider that situation up against those of the top 6 with almost unlimited financial resources. They have the additional pulling power of CL football and are 6 of the largest commercial entities in world football. They can sell their youth players on loan for more than we can sell some of our first team.

Now until we match their situation, any success is pinned on their being some sort of managerial miracle that would most likely be short lived. It’s not surprising that it hasn’t happened yet. The club needs to start going window by window with more and more investment until it is at a point where it has a squad made up of top 6 players and it can provide top class managers with top players or the means to buy in top players.

Until then, every manager will have the same insurmountable challenge to face whether it’s Conte or Ancelotti. There is no dream scenario where we hire a manager and he takes this group of players to winning a title in the short term. It doesn’t exist. The only route to success we have is a slow long term project where year by year we flush out the FFP issues, improve the squad window on window, and try and keep any manager who can stop the whole thing being derailed by relegation worries.

Then maybe we can get into hypothetical x manager v y manager debates but until then they’re largely pointless. It might take us another few seasons before we’ve even finished the turnaround tbh. There can be improvement of course but until FFP is shelved it will be slow. We will be looking this summer at again trying to sell players no one wants, to try and get a few good ones in without the pull of europe. Any sort of injury to any of these new players and we’re right back to substandard ones. Meanwhile the top 6 will be playing football manager with blank chequebooks.

 

[APN_EFC]

I like Conte, always have, what he did in 17/18 with Chelsea was brilliant.

I think we have to stop focussing on the managers though as these magical silver bullets to solve all of Everton’s woes immediately. This is a club that has never been competitive in the premier league. For most of that period we were financed like a championship team, and for large parts outside of Moyes and Royle we’ve had extremely poor managers and extremely poor recruitment.

We are currently in an extremely difficult situation where we are working through a legacy FFP problem of very poor players given high wages and long contracts under Koeman and Walsh. To add to that we have minimal saleable assets as a lot of the players we would consider letting go aren’t good enough to sell. Layered over this is a never ending injury crisis which keeps robbing us of first team players, saleable squad players, and even saleable youth players. It all leads to a drain on wages paying for a lot of people who cannot or are unable to contribute positively to Everton.

Now consider that situation up against those of the top 6 with almost unlimited financial resources. They have the additional pulling power of CL football and are 6 of the largest commercial entities in world football. They can sell their youth players on loan for more than we can sell some of our first team.

Now until we match their situation, any success is pinned on their being some sort of managerial miracle that would most likely be short lived. It’s not surprising that it hasn’t happened yet. The club needs to start going window by window with more and more investment until it is at a point where it has a squad made up of top 6 players and it can provide top class managers with top players or the means to buy in top players.

Until then, every manager will have the same insurmountable challenge to face whether it’s Conte or Ancelotti. There is no dream scenario where we hire a manager and he takes this group of players to winning a title in the short term. It doesn’t exist. The only route to success we have is a slow long term project where year by year we flush out the FFP issues, improve the squad window on window, and try and keep any manager who can stop the whole thing being derailed by relegation worries.

Then maybe we can get into hypothetical x manager v y manager debates but until then they’re largely pointless. It might take us another few seasons before we’ve even finished the turnaround tbh. There can be improvement of course but until FFP is shelved it will be slow. We will be looking this summer at again trying to sell players no one wants, to try and get a few good ones in without the pull of europe. Any sort of injury to any of these new players and we’re right back to substandard ones. Meanwhile the top 6 will be playing football manager with blank chequebooks.

It does seem to be clear that the managers are the least of the problems at our club, even though it seems strange to say so!

I think we need to do rebuild if Ancelotti is up for it, which is based on younger, hungrier players, and have 2 phases:
1) follow the Ajax, Leipzig, Dortmund model of buying young, developing and selling big
2) Establish a balanced squad which is always competitive

For that, the priorities, taking from your post are:

1) Fitness, physio departments - something is up if we have so many injuries over several years. Take this further to the entire backroom staff, and you wounder why is it that no new money and management can change things. The personnel and systems behind the scenes must be the same.

2) a crazy innovative recruitment drive - really sell - even at a loss - all those 12 players most of us agree on - and totally revamp the squad instantly, in one window. We can't afford another 8th - 10th place finish. We can't even afford to just sneak into 6th or 7th. We have to get in and stay in the top 6 for the entire season next time. Focus on young, hungry players with a point to prove, and older ones like James, Allan, Doucoure ONLY if they are loyal to Ancelotti or the idea

3) Change our captain. Seamus is amazing, but we need to buy or promote a new captain who actually has a proper on the pitch role and some authority with refs and our own players. We need leaders and at least 2 of our new recruits should be leaders, and Gylfi, Keane and Delph should never go near the armband, maybe Digne can but also seems to lack authority.

 

[Saint Domingo]

It does seem to be clear that the managers are the least of the problems at our club, even though it seems strange to say so!

I think we need to do rebuild if Ancelotti is up for it, which is based on younger, hungrier players, and have 2 phases:
1) follow the Ajax, Leipzig, Dortmund model of buying young, developing and selling big
2) Establish a balanced squad which is always competitive

For that, the priorities, taking from your post are:

1) Fitness, physio departments - something is up if we have so many injuries over several years. Take this further to the entire backroom staff, and you wounder why is it that no new money and management can change things. The personnel and systems behind the scenes must be the same.

2) a crazy innovative recruitment drive - really sell - even at a loss - all those 12 players most of us agree on - and totally revamp the squad instantly, in one window. We can't afford another 8th - 10th place finish. We can't even afford to just sneak into 6th or 7th. We have to get in and stay in the top 6 for the entire season next time. Focus on young, hungry players with a point to prove, and older ones like James, Allan, Doucoure ONLY if they are loyal to Ancelotti or the idea

3) Change our captain. Seamus is amazing, but we need to buy or promote a new captain who actually has a proper on the pitch role and some authority with refs and our own players. We need leaders and at least 2 of our new recruits should be leaders, and Gylfi, Keane and Delph should never go near the armband, maybe Digne can but also seems to lack authority.

Point 1 for me in this is absolutely huge. Tosun is a prime example of this. A player brought in for big money under Walsh on a high wage. We finally had a deal lined up to sell him to Paalace, get his wages off the book, bank some FFP profit, and he does his cruciate. Immediately that throws out a massive part of our transfer jigsaw. We then keep paying him for another season to rehabilitate he goes on loan, we get into the same opportunity again, and just as we would look to sell him this window he gets injured again.

Gbamin has not contributed since he’s arrived due to injury. Mina has also been far too inconsistent. Gomes has had his career ruined by serious injury. Besic another one never the same after an ACL. Coleman Oviedo all shattered their legs as well.

Even in the youth ranks this season has just been player after player falling foul of serious injuries. We can’t then sell them, they can’t play for us, they might not be as good in the future, but we keep paying them.

100s of millions of pounds worth of assets we can’t afford to lose are being flushed down the drain because we are absolutely cursed by injuries. Until this clears up it is just going to take longer and longer for us to drag ourselves out of this hole we’re in.

 

[TheBigIguana]

That’s it now I’m totally convinced you are a loon or just a WUM of the highest order
Allegri won the league in his first season at Milan
Won the league 5 times in a row with Juve , won the double 4 times in a row
Got Juve to their first CL final in over a decade
Get a grip lad you’re losing the plot

Yeah but he took over Conte's already title winning team at Juve was what I was saying. Which is true.

 

[TheBigIguana]

It does seem to be clear that the managers are the least of the problems at our club, even though it seems strange to say so!

I think we need to do rebuild if Ancelotti is up for it, which is based on younger, hungrier players, and have 2 phases:
1) follow the Ajax, Leipzig, Dortmund model of buying young, developing and selling big
2) Establish a balanced squad which is always competitive

For that, the priorities, taking from your post are:

1) Fitness, physio departments - something is up if we have so many injuries over several years. Take this further to the entire backroom staff, and you wounder why is it that no new money and management can change things. The personnel and systems behind the scenes must be the same.

2) a crazy innovative recruitment drive - really sell - even at a loss - all those 12 players most of us agree on - and totally revamp the squad instantly, in one window. We can't afford another 8th - 10th place finish. We can't even afford to just sneak into 6th or 7th. We have to get in and stay in the top 6 for the entire season next time. Focus on young, hungry players with a point to prove, and older ones like James, Allan, Doucoure ONLY if they are loyal to Ancelotti or the idea

3) Change our captain. Seamus is amazing, but we need to buy or promote a new captain who actually has a proper on the pitch role and some authority with refs and our own players. We need leaders and at least 2 of our new recruits should be leaders, and Gylfi, Keane and Delph should never go near the armband, maybe Digne can but also seems to lack authority.

I think on point 2 we really can afford another 9th or 10th finish if it happens because we spend the year trying to get better. What we did this year we can't have again.

 

[Brisan123]

Yeah but he took over Conte's already title winning team at Juve was what I was saying. Which is true.

And he made it much better

 

[blueblue]

Expectations at Everton have been low for a couple of decades now.
I read people here talking about NSNO but in all honesty most of them have not got a clue what they are talking about, many of them were not even around when that motto last meant what it says.

The appointment of CA was not just about the appointment of an elite manager, or just about building a team.
It was as much about building demands and expectations as well within the club. The manager talks freely about European qualification because he is trying to create the belief that this is what we should talk about and expect rather than dream of and almost fear.

The season gone by was generally solid, certainly not spectacular, apart from astonishing home losses.

I think the manager may be disappointed with the character shown by some of his players. At the end of last season he told the players to come back with a different attitude.
I think he knows very well what he is dealing with now and it may be telling that players like Iwobi, Bernard and Gomes drifted from starting selection as the season progressed.

Next season the manager will create greater demands on the players, hopefully additions in the summer will allow him to do this to a greater level.

I think we may see leaders signed because they seem to be in short supply. I can see why the manager would sign a Koulibaly , it would not be for the football alone, it would be for the leadership, the raised image the creation of a belief that we are again becoming a team that challenges.

Even SKY would find it hard to ignore such a signing.
I am not saying I think he will be signed, I have not aa clue who or what we are after.... no more than anybody else.

But, I do think there will be an attempt at a big signature signing, as with JR last year.

 

[LocalNative]

Expectations at Everton have been low for a couple of decades now.
I read people here talking about NSNO but in all honesty most of them have not got a clue what they are talking about, many of them were not even around when that motto last meant what it says.

The appointment of CA was not just about the appointment of an elite manager, or just about building a team.
It was as much about building demands and expectations as well within the club. The manager talks freely about European qualification because he is trying to create the belief that this is what we should talk about and expect rather than dream of and almost fear.

The season gone by was generally solid, certainly not spectacular, apart from astonishing home losses.

I think the manager may be disappointed with the character shown by some of his players. At the end of last season he told the players to come back with a different attitude.
I think he knows very well what he is dealing with now and it may be telling that players like Iwobi, Bernard and Gomes drifted from starting selection as the season progressed.

Next season the manager will create greater demands on the players, hopefully additions in the summer will allow him to do this to a greater level.

I think we may see leaders signed because they seem to be in short supply. I can see why the manager would sign a Koulibaly , it would not be for the football alone, it would be for the leadership, the raised image the creation of a belief that we are again becoming a team that challenges.

Even SKY would find it hard to ignore such a signing.
I am not saying I think he will be signed, I have not aa clue who or what we are after.... no more than anybody else.

But, I do think there will be an attempt at a big signature signing, as with JR last year.

Wasn't that James?

Even still, i'd rather we start putting in place a long-term strategy and build towards it rather than more aging big-named players to raise the profile. We need young, hungry and driven players to come in and bring that energy and enthusiasm to our turgid, slow and predictable football.

 

[Toffeelover]

Is Carlo back from Italy now? anyone.

 

[blueblue]

Wasn't that James?

Even still, i'd rather we start putting in place a long-term strategy and build towards it rather than more aging big-named players to raise the profile. We need young, hungry and driven players to come in and bring that energy and enthusiasm to our turgid, slow and predictable football.

The signing of James certainly did get us a lot of exposure and did raise our profile significantly and not just in England.
I would not be surprised to see one more such signing thissumm
However, I think we may see more younger players signed this summer,
Last year Carlo needed to put a stamp on the team , needed to firefight in certain parts of the team and brought in players that he knew could do a job for him.... there was a sticking plaster attitude to a degree.

This season is different, they have had twelve months to identify the type of player they need and where they can find them.
I think there is little doubt that players like Sigurdsson, Gomes, Iwobi, Bernard,Kean,Kenny, Tosun and maybe others will have had a conversation with the manager about their future.
Some he will want to retain others maybe not.

I think that if we sign four or five players most will be in the age range 23-25.

 

[MrGrumpy]

A lot of the talent currently in the Inter side was not there when Conte turned up. The leaving after three years or less isn't a good habit, but I think the right scenario would see him stay longer.

It also helps that he turns teams around rapidly. He's taken over teams finishing 7th, 10th and 6th the year before he arrived and his next seasons are 1st, 1st, 2nd. And the second place turned to a title the following year.

The PL is the hardest league in the world, that’s a fact, that’s why City have won the league cup 4 years running, Leicester are the only team since Blackburn to win the league that was not one of the big 5 and Leicester are the 1st team since Wigan to win the fa cup that was not the big 5.
You cant expect Carlo to turn a bunch of losers in to winners in 1 season this is not the mighty ducks. These players have consistently lost must win games, the entire club stinks it.
Tell me the last time we won a MUST win game?
Conte would not come here and turn us in to world beaters, we simply don’t have the players. We have no pace, we have a horrendous squad

 

[McBain]

Theres more Wham being chatted in here than at a George Michael Lookalike convention.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Three managers with philosophies and rigid systems have come in and after one season been found out because they weren’t good enough to get anything else out of horrendous groups of players.

A world class pragmatist is signed who improves us immediately upon arrival last season. He then has enough about him this season to stop the likes of Siggurdson Keane Pickford Coleman Davies Gomes ploughing us into a relegation battle again which saw the end for Koeman and Silva in their second seasons.

After seeing this though the verdict is that rather than let Ancelotti continue with clearing out the rubbish players and brining in better ones, they’d rather he behaved more like the two predecessors who got fired by getting more out of these players with a recognisable rigid system.

When will the penny drop. The squad has so many limitations that there’s no one formation we can play where we’ll be so good that other teams won’t be able to work us out and counter it easily. That’s precisely what happened under Koeman and Silva, a bit of an early bounce, a nice 433/4231 and then after 6 months we’re completely found out and neither of them had the talent to change it. Cue the wild 3 at the back formation as they nosedived towards relegation happily supported by these gutless players looking for managerial change and new contracts.

Thank god we finally have a manager with the talent to break the cycle, stave off the relegation nosedive, get results in various different ways, and stick around long enough to see off some of these utter leeches .

But yeah let’s try Graeme Potter instead, I’m sure he’d have Siggurdson Coleman Keane and Davies playing some lovely flowing stuff.

Not to mention Carlo turned DCL from a 6-10 goal a season striker to a 20 goal man, seems(still early) to have sorted Pickford mentality out. Improved Davies

 

[Saint Domingo]

The PL is the hardest league in the world, that’s a fact, that’s why City have won the league cup 4 years running, Leicester are the only team since Blackburn to win the league that was not one of the big 5 and Leicester are the 1st team since Wigan to win the fa cup that was not the big 5.
You cant expect Carlo to turn a bunch of losers in to winners in 1 season this is not the mighty ducks. These players have consistently lost must win games, the entire club stinks it.
Tell me the last time we won a MUST win game?
Conte would not come here and turn us in to world beaters, we simply don’t have the players. We have no pace, we have a horrendous squad

Some people seem to think if you just put these players in a 4231 every game there’s nothing wrong with them. Like we haven’t tried exactly that for about 20 years.