2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[zukai12_]

it's only carabao cup lids

 

[catcherintherye]

Any three players. He had Sigurdsson, Davies, Doucoure and Gomes. Play three of them in midfield. When the extended highlights come out I'd encourage people to try and track where Doucoure and Gomes and then Doucoure and Davies are positioned. Watch how often they end up miles apart including right before they score. We needed the third guy to close these gaps.

I mean I have commented on that seperately. Thats not a tactical thing or a Carlo thing though. It's a players mistake thing. I don't mean it disrespectfully, but I'm not sure if you've played the game much? You are always taught,from a young age, that at least 1 player has to hold the middle of the pitch. You do that at under 12. 3 players, for different reasons vacate that space. Thats not tactical from Ancelotti, it's braindead players, not thinking, probably out of mental fatigue.

Sigurdsson couldn't do it any longer, but he's on for penalties and the odd set piece chance. Doucoure makes a rash call to go and chase a ball. Davies the sees the above 2 mistakes and compounds it by dropping into the defensive line.

When I played, I played midfield, then moved back to CB or what might be a sweeper role where I'd organise our school and then district team. If you see Doucoure running off as he does, you just know you have to hold that position. From a CB pwrspective, it's horrendous, as there's a lad who's running at you, and you have no whether to go or press. As a CB you are focussed on marking your man, or you will go to the ball if it's your "side" in a worst case scenario. However it's dead centre, you don't know to leave it for the other guy. It's a horrendous situation. Becuase the people you want infront of you to press have vacated post.

What it's not though, is a plan from Ancelotti. He would have been clear to say hold that area of the pitch. Tired legs and tired minds kicked in.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Aubameyang Partey Ozil and Gabriel all didn't play. Tierney wouldn't start for us over Digne. Ceballos is crap we just have a crap midfield too. Lacazette didn't start terrible Nketiah did. Saka is all hype no substance right now. Maybe in 3 years but not now for him.

That team is crap. I agree we're ahead because of Carlo but the squad is good enough to expect us to be better than them imo. I swear I've said on here going back months now I'd be angry to finish behind Arsenal and it is still true.

These players are only viewed as poor because they are plying poorly under Arteta. Arsenal’s players talent wise are far better than ours. David Luiz is a far far better centreback than Michael Keane for example but Keane is playing at the top of his limited game under Ancelotti whereas Luiz is miles below his best form under Arteta. Similarly Partey Ceballos Xhaka have far more talent than Davies Sigurdsson and Gomes. Carlo probably has Davies and Sigurdsson playing as well as possible though whereas Arteta has his players in awful form. Even then the two teams were well matched.

If Ancelotti had the Arsenal squad he’d be challenging for the title and we’d be getting relegated under Arteta. Carlo’s talent is covering a wealth of problems in this squad and is making some very poor players look ok.

Iwobi is a prime example. He wasn’t good enough for Arsenal yet because Carlo has him in some decent form suddenly people expect him to be a top player. He’s not. I’d much rather have Pepe Saka or Willian any day over Iwobi, but Iwobi under Ancelotti is more useful than any of those players under Arteta.

We hopefully will finish ahead of Arsenal but I maintain they have a better squad than us.

 

[TheBigIguana]

He's a significantly better manager then OGS.

Must have been forgetting that we played them with pretty much our first 11 last time and got ruined by terrible defense.

But, yeah, tell me about how much better this United team is than us.

United have a better team but they had a far superior plan today too. The way he dropped Matic into LCB to stop us from pressing them when building from deep, the way they moved fluidly to open up gaps in attack, the way they knew how to quickly make runs when they broke lines. They were quite good tonight and it is a credit to OGS.

Now Carlo had us playing good stuff for the first month of the season and he needs to get us back to that. But today he was beaten too.

 

[TheBigIguana]

These players are only viewed as poor because they are plying poorly under Arteta. Arsenal’s players talent wise are far better than ours. David Luiz is a far far better centreback than Michael Keane for example but Keane is playing at the top of his limited game under Ancelotti whereas Luiz is miles below his best form under Arteta. Similarly Partey Ceballos Xhaka have far more talent than Davies Sigurdsson and Gomes. Carlo probably has Davies and Sigurdsson playing as well as possible though whereas Arteta has his players in awful form. Even then the two teams were well matched.

If Ancelotti had the Arsenal squad he’d be challenging for the title and we’d be getting relegated under Arteta. Carlo’s talent is covering a wealth of problems in this squad and is making some very poor players look ok.

Iwobi is a prime example. He wasn’t good enough for Arsenal yet because Carlo has him in some decent form suddenly people expect him to be a top player. He’s not. I’d much rather have Pepe Saka or Willian any day over Iwobi, but Iwobi under Ancelotti is more useful than any of those players under Arteta.

We hopefully will finish ahead of Arsenal but I maintain they have a better squad than us.

I just think when we start talking about Granit Xhaka's quality vs Gomes quality it is time to leave the conversation for another day. I just don't want to do that right now, respectfully.

 

[catcherintherye]

It's a pretty large understatement. We had no business being within a couple of goals much less level after 15 minutes.

You've already replied to my other post but both times we've played United they've tried to pull our midfielders out and attack the gaps. By only having two in there it was entirely too easy and so regardless of what we tried to do we were not solid. And that's the problem I had. His tactics whether it was because we didn't have enough in midfield or because they didn't execute their roles correctly or whatever else took us from tough game to unwinnable game.

And I will be honest he could have moved the third man into midfield and we still could have lost but at least it would have made United go away from plan A. Especially when if Plan B is crossing it plays into the hands of our backline.

If you move Sigurdsson back, you move away from what we did to make us successful, and you leave Dom isolated.

Look I don't share this view United could have been out of site. We started nervously, made individual mistakes and they had a couple of half chances. After about 20 minutes, once we settled, we were comfortable. We didn't dominate the play, but we had them at arms length.

The referee didn't give us a penalty when one ought to ahve been given, and probably should have sent Cavani off. Had he have done, it's another masterclass from Carlo.

 

[Egil Olsen]

Any three players. He had Sigurdsson, Davies, Doucoure and Gomes. Play three of them in midfield. When the extended highlights come out I'd encourage people to try and track where Doucoure and Gomes and then Doucoure and Davies are positioned. Watch how often they end up miles apart including right before they score. We needed the third guy to close these gaps.

The big problem was that the space in the midfield line was too big. We pressed with two attackers, and MU used Salida Lavolpiana. The midfielder/defender easily got past the pressure, and one of our midfielders fell for the temptation to get up in the pressure. Which caused MU to gain both positional and numerical advantage in between the lines. Richarlison and Iwobi often pushed diagonally as well, which completely broke our line.

 

[TheBigIguana]

If you move Sigurdsson back, you move away from what we did to make us successful, and you leave Dom isolated.

Look I don't share this view United could have been out of site. We started nervously, made individual mistakes and they had a couple of half chances. After about 20 minutes, once we settled, we were comfortable. We didn't dominate the play, but we had them at arms length.

The referee didn't give us a penalty when one ought to ahve been given, and probably should have sent Cavani off. Had he have done, it's another masterclass from Carlo.

Successful when? We weren't at any point tonight. And I've been saying since Saturday that we've been winning games without open play attacking for the most part in this recent run.

Not a masterclass for me. I appreciate that sometimes you have to grind out results but what is our ambition? This style is always going to have days where it goes like today and for me that leaves us 8th or so again. Tonight was just a matter of time sort of thing. It is always coming when you play that way.

Only good thing is we've shown at full strength what we can be but Carlo has to be willing to chance it again. The 3-4-3 he brought out for a few weeks wasn't that.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I mean I have commented on that seperately. Thats not a tactical thing or a Carlo thing though. It's a players mistake thing. I don't mean it disrespectfully, but I'm not sure if you've played the game much? You are always taught,from a young age, that at least 1 player has to hold the middle of the pitch. You do that at under 12. 3 players, for different reasons vacate that space. Thats not tactical from Ancelotti, it's braindead players, not thinking, probably out of mental fatigue.

Sigurdsson couldn't do it any longer, but he's on for penalties and the odd set piece chance. Doucoure makes a rash call to go and chase a ball. Davies the sees the above 2 mistakes and compounds it by dropping into the defensive line.

When I played, I played midfield, then moved back to CB or what might be a sweeper role where I'd organise our school and then district team. If you see Doucoure running off as he does, you just know you have to hold that position. From a CB pwrspective, it's horrendous, as there's a lad who's running at you, and you have no whether to go or press. As a CB you are focussed on marking your man, or you will go to the ball if it's your "side" in a worst case scenario. However it's dead centre, you don't know to leave it for the other guy. It's a horrendous situation. Becuase the people you want infront of you to press have vacated post.

What it's not though, is a plan from Ancelotti. He would have been clear to say hold that area of the pitch. Tired legs and tired minds kicked in.

To me you still have a management issue because it isn't an isolated thing leaving this gap in the middle. So if he doesn't want a third man in then he has to get more discipline out of his players. But I just don't think it is new enough a problem to be excused. It was an issue the last time we played United.

I'm not trying to absolve the players of their mistakes completely but Carlo does have to bare some responsibility for getting beaten by the same thing multiple times now.

 

[rochdaleblue]

A midfield with Allan (6), AD (8), JR (10), Richarlison (11) and Iwobi (7) is a pretty strong midfield. At least in a 4-2-3-1 formation. The problem is the depth of the squad.

Iwobi (even allowing for a slightly better showing of late) isn’t good enough for a team wanting to challenge for honours and European spots.

 

[Gilbert..]

He's a significantly better manager then OGS or are you debating that?

Must have been forgetting that we played them with pretty much our first 11 last time and got ruined by terrible defense.

But, yeah, tell me about how much better this United team is than us.

So you dont know is the answer. But it sounded good.
Ancelloti is a better manager polishing a turd of a squad against a manager tonight who changed his whole side from their league game a few days ago. A back up of 300m signings he could call on.
What ancelloti has done is make you hungry. He's getting the most from a very limited squad and now your expectations cant see through tonight.

 

[jaycee]

What is the squad size 25 isnt it? Out of that 25 theres possibly 7/8 plaayers that most of us would keep,thats the size of the task he faces

 

[Gilbert..]

What is the squad size 25 isnt it? Out of that 25 theres possibly 7/8 plaayers that most of us would keep,thats the size of the task he faces

Thats to sensible for this forum. Duck as the play stationioners chuck their joysticks at you.

 

[catcherintherye]

Successful when? We weren't at any point tonight. And I've been saying since Saturday that we've been winning games without open play attacking for the most part in this recent run.

Not a masterclass for me. I appreciate that sometimes you have to grind out results but what is our ambition? This style is always going to have days where it goes like today and for me that leaves us 8th or so again. Tonight was just a matter of time sort of thing. It is always coming when you play that way.

Only good thing is we've shown at full strength what we can be but Carlo has to be willing to chance it again. The 3-4-3 he brought out for a few weeks wasn't that.

Well 3 wins against 3 top 6/8 opponents would be success.

 

[Rob17896]

United have a better team but they had a far superior plan today too. The way he dropped Matic into LCB to stop us from pressing them when building from deep, the way they moved fluidly to open up gaps in attack, the way they knew how to quickly make runs when they broke lines. They were quite good tonight and it is a credit to OGS.

Now Carlo had us playing good stuff for the first month of the season and he needs to get us back to that. But today he was beaten too.

Schoolboy passes and errors from the start set the tone. No focus and Carlo is responsible for that. We were shameful.