2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[GwladysBlue]

That is simply because we don't have the best players, due to the respective size of the club now.

Carlo is our possible chance to change that. It will take time, if he is to do so.

I also disagree right now anyway. We are literally sat in 4th position, having beaten Sheffield United last weekend when we "took the opportunity".

We had a match that didn't go for us and lost because of a deflection. It doesn't need this kind of reaction.

But even when we have more quality than the opposition, we still don’t take the opportunity. Go down the seasons and see how many times we’ve been knocked out of cup competitions at Goodison to teams lower in the table or in lower divisions.

We don’t take opportunities when we are offered them. It’s a known fact that we bottle it when we have the chance.

Let’s hope Ancelotti can change that, I’m sure he’s just as frustrated as us right now.

 

[Hickson9]

But even when we have more quality than the opposition, we still don’t take the opportunity. Go down the seasons and see how many times we’ve been knocked out of cup competitions at Goodison to teams lower in the table or in lower divisions.

We don’t take opportunities when we are offered them. It’s a known fact that we bottle it when we have the chance.

Let’s hope Ancelotti can change that, I’m sure he’s just as frustrated as us right now.

Different players.

Different staff.

Different times.

 

[GwladysBlue]

Different players.

Different staff.

Different times.

Same end result.

That’s the worrying trend.

 

[catcherintherye]

We’ve improved for sure but that’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is when we’re expected to win, and a bit of pressure is applied, we tend not to be able to push on and do it.

There’s so many examples over the years and it is truly heartbreaking to see the same failures year in, year out.

The issue is, until Carlo turned up we never even got into the position whereby we were expected to win, or any serious pressure at the top end was on. You are not going to go from a side who resied in the bottom 3, to one who can win every game in 12 months.

I'd also have to quibble this idea we don't win when pressure is on. We have gone away to 2 top 6 sides and won away from home. That was the usual schtick to beat a manager with before, he's ticked that box. Pressure was on when we played Palace away and could go top. Again won and passed the test. The same with Brighton at home.

Likewise, the same pressure Chelsea at home when we needed a win he passed. Then Leicester away- going to a top 6 rival and winning, again tick. Then Arsenal, beating a lower down the table side at home- tick.Shefield United away, can we go to a poor team and win, when heavily fatigued- again big tick.

I mean there's countless examples there, whereby we have needed to win and been under pressure and passed the test. Losing yesterday doesn't invalidate that, or automatically prove the theory we can't win under pressure.

As a final aside, I think the Leeds/West Ham games areprobably games we win when fans are back. They are narrow defeats. We probably win the derby with fans too, given the marginal advantage you get in a tight game. Thats the big positive to me. As and when fans return, you will see a big uptick up home form. You take those 3 games and stick in 3 wins and we would currently be clear at the top. There is plenty to be optimistic about.

 

[catcherintherye]

Same end result.

That’s the worrying trend.

It's not the same end result though is it? We haven't won at a top 6 team in years and we've done that. We hadn't made as good a start as this in 15 years.

If you're view is that if we lose a single game, it makes it the "same result" then yes same result. And it's been the same result, for pretty much every team every season (with the exception of 1 for Arsenal).

Everyone lose games mate. Seasons are defined by how many you lose and how many you win. If we can go on a run, whereby we win 4 and lose 1 for the rest of the season, we would all snatch your hand off, as we would probably go on to win the league.

 

[kenada_blue]

But, and it is a big but! We aren’t going to achieve that with a midfield combo of Davies and Gylfi, so if Allan is still a long way off, then we seriously need to buy or loan in this window. Gomes isn’t the answer either, he’s looked better off the bench.

Depends on if the January signing is a long term or a stop gap. If it's 1 quality player then fair play. If it's a mediocre one, then wait until summer for me.

Honestly think whatever happens, we'll be on course for our best league finish for years with a plan on what to improve going forward

 

[BlueStevie35]

But even when we have more quality than the opposition, we still don’t take the opportunity. Go down the seasons and see how many times we’ve been knocked out of cup competitions at Goodison to teams lower in the table or in lower divisions.

We don’t take opportunities when we are offered them. It’s a known fact that we bottle it when we have the chance.

Let’s hope Ancelotti can change that, I’m sure he’s just as frustrated as us right now.

Same can be said for most clubs really, it’s not a recent occurrence. United under Ferguson got knocked out of cup competitions to the likes of York, Palace and Leeds (the latter two when in lower leagues), Liverpool famously in back to back seasons got dumped out by Bolton and Bristol City under Sourness, the latter of which got him fired, Chelsea under Mourinho blew a 2-0 lead against League 2 Bradford a few years back

 

[GwladysBlue]

The issue is, until Carlo turned up we never even got into the position whereby we were expected to win, or any serious pressure at the top end was on. You are not going to go from a side who resied in the bottom 3, to one who can win every game in 12 months.

I'd also have to quibble this idea we don't win when pressure is on. We have gone away to 2 top 6 sides and won away from home. That was the usual schtick to beat a manager with before, he's ticked that box. Pressure was on when we played Palace away and could go top. Again won and passed the test. The same with Brighton at home.

Likewise, the same pressure Chelsea at home when we needed a win he passed. Then Leicester away- going to a top 6 rival and winning, again tick. Then Arsenal, beating a lower down the table side at home- tick.Shefield United away, can we go to a poor team and win, when heavily fatigued- again big tick.

I mean there's countless examples there, whereby we have needed to win and been under pressure and passed the test. Losing yesterday doesn't invalidate that, or automatically prove the theory we can't win under pressure.

As a final aside, I think the Leeds/West Ham games areprobably games we win when fans are back. They are narrow defeats. We probably win the derby with fans too, given the marginal advantage you get in a tight game. Thats the big positive to me. As and when fans return, you will see a big uptick up home form. You take those 3 games and stick in 3 wins and we would currently be clear at the top. There is plenty to be optimistic about.

We definitely have been in positions over the years before Ancelotti when we have not pushed on when we could have done. We literally went out of a cup quarterfinal at home the week before he became manager.

You’re talking about regular games throughout a season, I’m talking about the huge games that stick out as big opportunities: Wigan, Leicester, United, Liverpool Reserves (FA Cup), etc.

We don’t win them games, or very rarely do.

I believe it’s a culture issue at the club because there is no consequences for failure, it is ingrained in the very fabric of the club these days.

 

[GwladysBlue]

Same can be said for most clubs really, it’s not a recent occurrence. United under Ferguson got knocked out of cup competitions to the likes of York, Palace and Leeds (the latter two when in lower leagues), Liverpool famously in back to back seasons got dumped out by Bolton and Bristol City under Sourness, the latter of which got him fired, Chelsea under Mourinho blew a 2-0 lead against League 2 Bradford a few years back

But they still managed success via the league or cups in other seasons.

We’re on a 26 year trophy drought and haven’t finished in the top 4 for 16 years.

 

[GwladysBlue]

It's not the same end result though is it? We haven't won at a top 6 team in years and we've done that. We hadn't made as good a start as this in 15 years.

If you're view is that if we lose a single game, it makes it the "same result" then yes same result. And it's been the same result, for pretty much every team every season (with the exception of 1 for Arsenal).

Everyone lose games mate. Seasons are defined by how many you lose and how many you win. If we can go on a run, whereby we win 4 and lose 1 for the rest of the season, we would all snatch your hand off, as we would probably go on to win the league.

We’ll see. If we get in a position where 4th is attainable again this season, we will do everything possible to throw it away, like we always do.

If Ancelotti can buck the ‘Everton, that’ trend, it’ll be one of his greatest achievements.

 

[catcherintherye]

We definitely have been in positions over the years before Ancelotti when we have not pushed on when we could have done. We literally went out of a cup quarterfinal at home the week before he became manager.

You’re talking about regular games throughout a season, I’m talking about the huge games that stick out as big opportunities: Wigan, Leicester, United, Liverpool Reserves (FA Cup), etc.

We don’t win them games, or very rarely do.

I believe it’s a culture issue at the club because there is no consequences for failure, it is ingrained in the very fabric of the club these days.

I actually think there's probably a bit in that. However I do also think its a bit overblown. Teams tend to lose and win. You will lose some games, and over the last 20 years you will lose and win some important games. I'm not sure we lose anymore big games than others.

The 2nd point would be, why was yesterdays game against West Ham the big game? Over say Sheffield United? Or Arsenal? Or Leicester? Or Chelsea? Or Brighton? Or Palace? Or Spurs? I'd argue all of the above were "bigger" games in their own right if we were to look at things objectively. It always seems a case that a large dose of confirmation bias kicks in to these discussions.

As a final aside even if it exists (it may do) it's not really a manager who's been here 1 year to fix, and nor is it going to be fixed in 12 months is it? It's going to take time. The metrics we are using, I.E we don't win enough games are beign overwhelmingly changed now. The evidence is quite clear in this regard.

 

[davids]

Different players.

Different staff.

Different times.

Same choking when the result matters.

 

[TheSecondComing]

We definitely have been in positions over the years before Ancelotti when we have not pushed on when we could have done. We literally went out of a cup quarterfinal at home the week before he became manager.

You’re talking about regular games throughout a season, I’m talking about the huge games that stick out as big opportunities: Wigan, Leicester, United, Liverpool Reserves (FA Cup), etc.

We don’t win them games, or very rarely do.

I believe it’s a culture issue at the club because there is no consequences for failure, it is ingrained in the very fabric of the club these days.

Don’t talk about culture because it can’t be seen people don’t believe it’s real.

Until Kenwright and his cronies he’s positioned in power leave nothing will change.

 

[catcherintherye]

We’ll see. If we get in a position where 4th is attainable again this season, we will do everything possible to throw it away, like we always do.

If Ancelotti can buck the ‘Everton, that’ trend, it’ll be one of his greatest achievements.

So essentially, if we weren't to finish in the top 4, you would hold the manager as a failure? The problem here is your expectations mate. They are not realistic.

 

[catcherintherye]

Don’t talk about culture because it can’t be seen people don’t believe it’s real.

Until Kenwright and his cronies he’s positioned in power leave nothing will change.

Which I agree with. But surely the fact they haven't gone, is not a stick to beat Ancelotti with. It shows he's doing even better, given who he is working under.