2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[catcherintherye]

I think you can usually see some signs of progress or the lack of progress. With Silva for instance it became clear, at least it is to me now but I think I said it that summer too, that he was over-reliant on Gueye to cover his lackluster press. So there was no sense in waiting.

I don't think there is a catch all answer to that. But sometimes it is useful to give the guy time to build.

Ok, so when did you draw that conclusion on Gana? Essentially you would give him just over a year?

 

[Egil Olsen]

I get that, I really am only using the numbers for the ease of it, but I guess as a question what are Carlo's principles at the minute? We've spent half the season playing as a fairly aggressive attacking side looking to outplay teams including the RS and United and then we've gone to being an extremely conservative side looking to pinch every game?

I know injuries, but that's a big shift.

To be honest, I do not know. On the other hand, I have not sat down to analyze all of Everton's matches to find recurring patterns. But I'm sure he has his principles too, but it will take time.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Ok so you want a manager who has a consistent system. But not like Silva or Martinez as they were poor managers. You also are ok with him changing systems for some games. But not too many games. Is that about right?

I mean Jurgen Klopp and Pep change their formations too. I can't think of a manager who doesn't change formations.

No it isn't right. I want a manager who has is going to bring us consistency. That could mean the same formation but it doesn't have to. It does mean that going from a back four to a back three and the back to back four is probably not it. It does mean that playing attacking, possession based for 2 months and then conservative and secure for the next two is probably not it either.

But at the same time I'd like for the consistency to be without a fatal flaw like Silva and Martinez had. I don't think that is really asking as much as you're trying to make it sound like.

 

[roydo]

I think you can usually see some signs of progress or the lack of progress. With Silva for instance it became clear, at least it is to me now but I think I said it that summer too, that he was over-reliant on Gueye to cover his lackluster press. So there was no sense in waiting.

I don't think there is a catch all answer to that. But sometimes it is useful to give the guy time to build.

Footballers are human beings. They are also, as a collective, lazy toss pots. Get paid, get picked, all good. But they will sniff out a fraud of a manager like a fox will run riot in a hen house.

Its why, when a list of great managers is drawn up, its quite short. Cos most aint all that.

Moyes did "well" here cos he didnt have pampered cry arses, he actually had to shift out some wasters early days. But most he bought in played for him.

 

[Moonlight dribbler]

This guy is a pyar dinosaur. No way we’ll get anywhere under him. If you watch us and say any different then you’re utterly deluded.

He’s the Italian Sam Allardyce

Kopites are FUMING tonight.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Footballers are human beings. They are also, as a collective, lazy toss pots. Get paid, get picked, all good. But they will sniff out a fraud of a manager like a fox will run riot in a hen house.

Its why, when a list of great managers is drawn up, its quite short. Cos most aint all that.

Moyes did "well" here cos he didnt have pampered cry arses, he actually had to shift out some wasters early days. But most he bought in played for him.

Moyes system probably is too limited to get anywhere above maybe 4th or so but he does have a consistent system that he is not going to stray from and that largely works.

To me that's decent enough management.

I'm not saying I want Moyes because I think someone like Carlo is capable of more.

 

[Egil Olsen]

Let’s see Guardiola do it with a bog standard team though.

He will never win the league with a mediocre team. It is impossible. The teams with the best players will almost always win. But he will transform the players into much better football players. Guerdiola is first and foremost a player developer. As he says: "A successful team needs good players"

 

[TheBigIguana]

Read above what I posted.

Carlo likes to experiment, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, his trophy haul suggests he gets it right more than he doesnt.

I get that. I worry that experimenting works better when you've got Shevchenko, Pirlo, Maldini, Kaka, Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Ronaldo, Ramos, Casillas and Ibra in your side.

 

[Moonlight dribbler]

No it isn't right. I want a manager who has is going to bring us consistency. That could mean the same formation but it doesn't have to. It does mean that going from a back four to a back three and the back to back four is probably not it. It does mean that playing attacking, possession based for 2 months and then conservative and secure for the next two is probably not it either.

But at the same time I'd like for the consistency to be without a fatal flaw like Silva and Martinez had. I don't think that is really asking as much as you're trying to make it sound like.

How about just try and score more goals than the other team as often as possible?

 

[catcherintherye]

No it isn't right. I want a manager who has is going to bring us consistency. That could mean the same formation but it doesn't have to. It does mean that going from a back four to a back three and the back to back four is probably not it. It does mean that playing attacking, possession based for 2 months and then conservative and secure for the next two is probably not it either.

But at the same time I'd like for the consistency to be without a fatal flaw like Silva and Martinez had. I don't think that is really asking as much as you're trying to make it sound like.

Ok.

It seems to me you have this broad term "consistency" that is very hard to define or measure. I sense it is a perception you have rather than anything concrete.

I'll be honest I can't really work out what it is so its really difficult to hold a manager accountable for not doing it.

It seems to be based around not doing certain things Ancelotti has done, despite a lot of them being key to winning us matches. So I can't see it as a good idea for us.

I have given 2 managers as examples of approaching said consistency, who haven't worked. Sometimes what you call consistency could also be described as inflexibility and dogma.

 

[catcherintherye]

I get that. I worry that experimenting works better when you've got Shevchenko, Pirlo, Maldini, Kaka, Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Ronaldo, Ramos, Casillas and Ibra in your side.

But surely the real point here is the opposite of what you say. If you have the best players, spend the most on transfers and wages etc, you can develop your way of doing tihngs and the rest of the league has to fit in around that.

If you do not have the above, you surely have to be nimble, flexible etc in your approach. Like the guy in moneyball says, if we do what they in terms of tactics, we will lose on the field.

It's essentially a privilege we don't have.

 

[TheBigIguana]

But surely the real point here is the opposite of what you say. If you have the best players, spend the most on transfers and wages etc, you can develop your way of doing tihngs and the rest of the league has to fit in around that.

If you do not have the above, you surely have to be nimble, flexible etc in your approach. Like the guy in moneyball says, if we do what they in terms of tactics, we will lose on the field.

It's essentially a privilege we don't have.

Aside from the part where Atalanta have done it spending a fraction of what we have, sure.

 

[catcherintherye]

Aside from the part where Atalanta have done it spending a fraction of what we have, sure.

So what have Atalanta won? And does Gasperini not change formation? And finally, is the owner willing to set up how Atalanta do and be as patient as they are etc.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Ok.

It seems to me you have this broad term "consistency" that is very hard to define or measure. I sense it is a perception you have rather than anything concrete.

I'll be honest I can't really work out what it is so its really difficult to hold a manager accountable for not doing it.

It seems to be based around not doing certain things Ancelotti has done, despite a lot of them being key to winning us matches. So I can't see it as a good idea for us.

I have given 2 managers as examples of approaching said consistency, who haven't worked. Sometimes what you call consistency could also be described as inflexibility and dogma.

What you seem to be missing is that doing something that doesn't work consistently is a bad idea. That's Silva and Martinez.

Carlo had a working tactic that could have been viable longer term to and decided he didn't want to do that anymore. Maybe that would have ended up like Silva and Martinez, but going to keep it tight and nick it would not have been my move.

 

[Goat]

So what have Atalanta won? And does Gasperini not change formation? And finally, is the owner willing to set up how Atalanta do and be as patient as they are etc.

Nothing, they have nothing.

Proper example to follow dat.