2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[TheSecondComing]

This is the attitude to have

We played a gang of kids and lost, you'll have to excuse me if I am not feeling like a super bloooo at the moment.

 

[bicycleheader]

Oh and wasn’t he already vice captain, so technically he just hasn’t changed it? Or did I miss some announcement

 

[Sharpies volley]

You do know they`ve all been juiced up to their eyeballs for the last two seasons don`t you ?

I would love that to be true as I've stated on here many times. But until someone takes the time and has the knowhow to investigate the allegations and bring them out in the open. We'll it's just hearsay for now.

 

[kenada_blue]

Absolutely spot on mate, but isn't that part of the managers job as well. Motervation, psychology, etc.

Of course...but I'm pretty sure your Shanks etc jibbed off players that didn't buy in or weren't commited to their way. Additionally there's only so much you can allow it.

In terms of Carlo here. He's give these players ample time to prove something.

And didnt Clough once say "Players lose you games, not tactics."

 

[GwladysBlue]

if we don’t finish in a European place from all the chances we’ve had to get back into the top 4 since December, I’d say anything less would be a massive failure personally.
Sure this season was never going to be plain sailing, but come on! It’s like people are willing to accept failure already and give a million excuses.
We know we don’t have a strong squad and strength in depth, but seriously, from where we are and the chances we have had to keep on the coat tails of the top 4 it’s seriously looking like we’ve just not been up to the job, or have turned in piss poor performances every time we’ve got anywhere near.
Anybody would think we are allergic to doing well.
By the way, I’m aware Spurs fans will be saying exactly the same too.
It’s a bit grim to see how much we have fallen behind Leicester again. Or is everybody just in mass acceptance now that this is just our place in the pecking order and we should just expect to finish below them?

from the start we had we should be optimistic, but I feel there’s a line we all have to buy into now which is that this season was never going to yield anything anyway. It’s such a losers mentality it’s actually quite sad.

Well said.

We should be demanding a lot more from one of the highest paid managers and most expensively assembled squads in World football.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

It takes time to turn around a massively mismanaged football club. Hell it even took Man City and Mansour a few years to start competing at the level they are at, spending millions along the way, and numerous managers, Chelsea did the same. We have Carlo (a proven world class winner) who obviously knows what he's doing. It might take a season or two or even three but he's got us going in the right direction. I have faith in the manager. As much as it's frustrating to watch us at times.

 

[Lanolin]

I can’t be arsed going into great detail but I don’t think it’s as clear as you paint it. I reckon it’s been a different scenario in different parts of this season.

last season I wouldn’t even count. He was working with whatever crap he had. This season he benched him and we seemed to have a first choice MF without him, until Gomes went crap and got injured. Then at various points you have had other options in MF and/or in the front three not available or also in crap form.

I can’t stand the player but I still think it holds up as reasonable that he uses him so much this season, because I look at other options and can’t see a screamingly loud and clear argument for them being in over him at each point. Even if I’d personally just drop him in the Mersey

at this point I reckon it’s more likely we keep the blert but I believe recruitment should mean we never use him apart from a sub option in the final third

I didn't say it wasn't reasonable though. This is the thing, you're seeing criticisms that aren't there and thinking everyone's plotting every time they say something you don't agree with. All i'm saying is Ancelotti has picked Sigurdsson in almost every single game it's been possible to do so, and this constant attempt to pretend that it's just a coincidence or because there's no other option is just bizarre. He picked him last night ahead of James, ahead of King, ahead of Bernard etc. There are options, but he consistently decides that Sigurdsson is the best of them. I'm not even saying it's wrong, i'm just saying it's a fact. He came on in all of those early games you're talking about, he didn't come in because of injury he just got selected ahead of Gomes in the Southampton game after doing OK in a couple of sub appearances. If he got the City job would he sign Sigurdsson for them? Of course not, nobody's suggesting that. But why people insist on making out like he's lumbered with him here and would love to get rid I just have no idea. He quite clearly thinks he has something to offer, there's really no logical argument to the contrary.

 

[nsno-chris]

Quite a few of there players actually. But one who stands out for me is Henderson. A very average player in my opinion. But who has come good under Klipperty. He just does what he says on the tin. Milners carear was all but over and ahain an average footballer but good utility player. Salah hadn't exactly pulled up any trees until Klopp brought him in. Firminho was being hung out to dry by most of my RS mates look how he's improved under Klopp. Wjnaldum another. Can't think of anymore off the top of my head.

Salah was actually a very good player in Italy with a 1 in 2 goal scoring ratio, Firminho was touted for big things in Germany

Henderson and Milner are exactly the same now, crabs who with a bit of special asthma juice have more energy than most

He hasn’t improved anyone and that team are players he’s brought in, with the exception of the odd 2

 

[helpimonfire]

We played a gang of kids and lost, you'll have to excuse me if I am not feeling like a super bloooo at the moment.

That was another time. Bring it on

 

[kenada_blue]

Salah was actually a very good player in Italy with a 1 in 2 goal scoring ratio, Firminho was touted for big things in Germany

Henderson and Milner are exactly the same now, crabs who with a bit of special asthma juice have more energy than most

He hasn’t improved anyone and that team are players he’s brought in, with the exception of the odd 2

And they didn't win anything or get near the title until they spent £100mill+ on 2 players.

 

[Sharpies volley]

Salah was actually a very good player in Italy with a 1 in 2 goal scoring ratio, Firminho was touted for big things in Germany

Henderson and Milner are exactly the same now, crabs who with a bit of special asthma juice have more energy than most

He hasn’t improved anyone and that team are players he’s brought in, with the exception of the odd 2

He hasn't improved the team? Were have you been for the past 3 years.

 

[catcherintherye]

I understand all this. Old ideas often come back, but they have evolved because they have to take into account all the other ideas that have evolved. My point is, and I hope I am wrong (which is very possible) is that Ancelotti's ideas have not evolved in line with the new ideas.

So what he has are ideas that were successful in a given context, but that do not respond to the challenges of today's context. Alternatively, the ideas give us no advantage over our opponents. They work to a certain extent, but do not give us a competitive advantage.

When what went well in other big clubs does not work here, for natural reasons, he is out of ideas and goes back to the most primitive and safe he can come up with. He is Italian and the catenaccio attitude is in their blood. But the probability that I am wrong is extremely high. Still, it's a thought.

It's a perfectly reasonable theory. But I'm not ure the reality plays it out. He's taken a team that was 18th under it's previous manager, or 15th when he believed first to 12th (showing form that would have been in and around 6th place of the league in his time) and has repeated, and probably slightly imrpoved that this season. I suspect we will finish in the low-mid 60's this season and have the best finish the club has had in 7 years. This will be, for the most part with spending the least money of any of the last 3-4 managers. So while it's a workable theory his ideas are out of touch, the results I would suggest would show his ideas are in touch.

I like the theory behind having a manager who develops a style of play that takes 2-3 years and then getting the benefits down the line. I just don't think said manager would ever be given the time, by the fan base, or the owner to complete that task.

 

[bicycleheader]

I didn't say it wasn't reasonable though. This is the thing, you're seeing criticisms that aren't there and thinking everyone's plotting every time they say something you don't agree with. All i'm saying is Ancelotti has picked Sigurdsson in almost every single game it's been possible to do so, and this constant attempt to pretend that it's just a coincidence or because there's no other option is just bizarre. He picked him last night ahead of James, ahead of King, ahead of Bernard etc. There are options, but he consistently decides that Sigurdsson is the best of them. I'm not even saying it's wrong, i'm just saying it's a fact. He came on in all of those early games you're talking about, he didn't come in because of injury he just got selected ahead of Gomes in the Southampton game after doing OK in a couple of sub appearances. If he got the City job would he sign Sigurdsson for them? Of course not, nobody's suggesting that. But why people insist on making out like he's lumbered with him here and would love to get rid I just have no idea. He quite clearly thinks he has something to offer, there's really no logical argument to the contrary.

something to offer within the dearth of options for the vast majority of times he has picked doesn’t equate to thinking he has something to offer in a stronger squad which you’d hope we will have next season

I think it’s still very likely he is lumbered with him. Given choice of keep and play as first choice, keep and get better options in so he only plays occasionally, or sell and get somebody else in.....I’m confident he would not go for the first option. So given he has to use him as the first option I still reckon he is lumbered with the guy. And lumbered with other crap options that arent good enough to keep a cra Siggurdson out the team

again, my preference would be he drops lumber on him rather than uses him at all

 

[Sharpies volley]

Of course...but I'm pretty sure your Shanks etc jibbed off players that didn't buy in or weren't commited to their way. Additionally there's only so much you can allow it.

In terms of Carlo here. He's give these players ample time to prove something.

And didnt Clough once say "Players lose you games, not tactics."

You've just answered your own question there with your Clough quote and please don't think I'm anti Carlo cause I'm not. It is gonna take time and there's a few signs of promise[ but he's got to get the most out of the players we're stuck with until he can improve upon them. Which to a point I think he has. But when you watch performances against the likes of Fulham it makes you wonder. QUOTE="kenada_blue, post: 8534430, member: 1052"]
Of course...but I'm pretty sure your Shanks etc jibbed off players that didn't buy in or weren't commited to their way. Additionally there's only so much you can allow it.

In terms of Carlo here. He's give these players ample time to prove something.

And didnt Clough once say "Players lose you games, not tactics."
[/QUOTE]

 

[bicycleheader]

I understand all this. Old ideas often come back, but they have evolved because they have to take into account all the other ideas that have evolved. My point is, and I hope I am wrong (which is very possible) is that Ancelotti's ideas have not evolved in line with the new ideas.

So what he has are ideas that were successful in a given context, but that do not respond to the challenges of today's context. Alternatively, the ideas give us no advantage over our opponents. They work to a certain extent, but do not give us a competitive advantage.

When what went well in other big clubs does not work here, for natural reasons, he is out of ideas and goes back to the most primitive and safe he can come up with. He is Italian and the catenaccio attitude is in their blood. But the probability that I am wrong is extremely high. Still, it's a thought.

a tactical review of what he’s done the last few seasons, which somebody did at some point last year, would change your mind and bring you back to what I think is the more logical conclusion.....he will be able to do more with a few more of his own players.