2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[Sharpies volley]

And they didn't win anything or get near the title until they spent £100mill+ on 2 players.

100 million well spent I'd say. But anyone who knows anything about the game could see their improvement and that they where heading in the right direction before those players came in.

 

[catcherintherye]

I dont think the questioning comes from just the 2 games we`ve lost but the manner in how we`ve lost to a few teams this season. And why shouldn`t a mananger get questioned? It keeps them honest, in your working lives I guarantee your managers are getting questioned constantly, it keeps their performance high.

I agree with all of that mate.

There's a discussion to be had, and it's absolutely fair people make their views known about the manager. I suppose it goes both ways though, that if someone is critical- which I completely understand- that there's also a rebuttal. I'm not of the view there's any right or wrong answer here either, people have different views, expectations etc around the club and everyone is entitled to that.

The big take out of this season, is inevitably going to be "what if" on those home games. Even if form picks up, there will always be that 6-10 point extra we could have got. If we get 7th we could have got top 6. If we get top 6 we could have got top 4. If we get top 4, we might have finished above Liverpool etc (you get my drift). It's an area that needs to be looked at, and an area I think the manager will be looking to improve. From a glass half full perspective, with fans returning next season (likely to) it is an area I think we can make quite quick improvements as well.

As a final aside I have been quite critical of Ancelotti too. We had a system that worked, which was 4 cb's across the back 4. And he moved us on from it. To me thats cost us anywhere from 4-10 points over recent weeks and it's really frustrating.

What I would say though, is often some of the criticism of him seems to miss this out. There are a lot of undertones that he should be more like Hassanhuttl, Bielsa or whoever and his failure to play a specific way is the problem. We've got no idea that approach would work or not. To me, a farmore sensible criticism is, we had a way of playing that was working, and we abandoned it. It was not the most "hipster" way of playing, and you couldn't give it cool labels like "gegenpressing" or "passing lanes" or whatever else, but it was very effective. I'd much prefer we worked with what works for us, in the here and now, than get too bogged down in what might philosophically work in Germany when we have no idea how it translates over here.

Can you honestly imagine the fewm on here if we conceded 4 at Arsenal, or 6 at United, or got dumped out of the cup easily by Crawley? Or got hammered for 9 twice in consecutive seasons, or were on a 6 game losing run. They wouldn't last. Managing Southampton, or even Leeds is a world away from managing Everton.

 

[nsno-chris]

He hasn't improved the team? Were have you been for the past 3 years.

I see your own BS statement has fell to bits quite quickly. You said he’s improved players that he had there. He hasn’t, he’s bought them

Now you’re trying to turn the argument to improving the team

We’ll put this down as a fail

 

[LocalNative]

if we don’t finish in a European place from all the chances we’ve had to get back into the top 4 since December, I’d say anything less would be a massive failure personally.
Sure this season was never going to be plain sailing, but come on! It’s like people are willing to accept failure already and give a million excuses.
We know we don’t have a strong squad and strength in depth, but seriously, from where we are and the chances we have had to keep on the coat tails of the top 4 it’s seriously looking like we’ve just not been up to the job, or have turned in piss poor performances every time we’ve got anywhere near.
Anybody would think we are allergic to doing well.
By the way, I’m aware Spurs fans will be saying exactly the same too.
It’s a bit grim to see how much we have fallen behind Leicester again. Or is everybody just in mass acceptance now that this is just our place in the pecking order and we should just expect to finish below them?

from the start we had we should be optimistic, but I feel there’s a line we all have to buy into now which is that this season was never going to yield anything anyway. It’s such a losers mentality it’s actually quite sad.

That's a terrible take. You don't have just 1-2 chances to finish in the top 4 mate, you have 38 games to go through. A loss to Fulham at home won't be attributed as the reason we didn't make top 4.

Problem is we punched above our weight at the start of the season and nicked some big results, expectation has gone through the roof since then. Leicester have been consistently solid and chasing the pack for the past few years now, no shock they're ahead of us. I suspect by the end of the season we'll be comfortably behind the top 4 - just hope we can cling onto a European spot and that would represent a success for me.

 

[nsno-chris]

And they didn't win anything or get near the title until they spent £100mill+ on 2 players.

exactly, weakness identified and blow your full transfer budget. It worked for him

I think @Sharpies volley thinks that those purchases didn’t happen and klopp found them in the reserves and turned them in to world class players

 

[Lanolin]

something to offer within the dearth of options for the vast majority of times he has picked doesn’t equate to thinking he has something to offer in a stronger squad which you’d hope we will have next season

I think it’s still very likely he is lumbered with him. Given choice of keep and play as first choice, keep and get better options in so he only plays occasionally, or sell and get somebody else in.....I’m confident he would not go for the first option. So given he has to use him as the first option I still reckon he is lumbered with the guy. And lumbered with other crap options that arent good enough to keep a cra Siggurdson out the team

again, my preference would be he drops lumber on him rather than uses him at all

And I don’t think anybody has suggested otherwise. Again, nobody’s saying he thinks he’s the worlds greatest player, just that they would rather see other players ahead of him and are frustrated it doesn’t happen. He’s never getting a squad full of his ideal players here, I think people are in for a nasty shock if they think we’re going out and getting 6/7 new starters next year. Like every other manager in world football he’s going to have to make do with some players he’d rather not have - quite why people seem to think this is something peculiar to Everton I don’t really know.

 

[bicycleheader]

And I don’t think anybody has suggested otherwise. Again, nobody’s saying he thinks he’s the worlds greatest player, just that they would rather see other players ahead of him and are frustrated it doesn’t happen. He’s never getting a squad full of his ideal players here, I think people are in for a nasty shock if they think we’re going out and getting 6/7 new starters next year. Like every other manager in world football he’s going to have to make do with some players he’d rather not have - quite why people seem to think this is something peculiar to Everton I don’t really know.

There’s a long way between squad full of crap, average and underperforming players (his starting point) to Carlo having mostly his players but still having to use some squad options that we might not like much.(an absolute dream right now)

we are half way between there for me so the crap players we don’t like that are still there, whether Carlo wants them out the door or not, are still having to be used waaaay more than you’d like. This is impacted greatly by injuries also.

 

[riddick]

I think after the derby we go to 1 game a week. I think this will help the manager and squad and hopefully we'll see an improvement to our recent form.

When has rest and preparation EVER helped us this season? Every time we have had time to prepare for a match we've been woeful.

 

[Sharpies volley]

I see your own BS statement has fell to bits quite quickly. You said he’s improved players that he had there. He hasn’t, he’s bought them

Now you’re trying to turn the argument to improving the team

We’ll put this down as a fail

No we won't and its not an argument, it's a debate and a discussion between people with different opinions. He has bought players that's true but he's also improved some players that he already had.

 

[kenada_blue]

You've just answered your own question there with your Clough quote and please don't think I'm anti Carlo cause I'm not. It is gonna take time and there's a few signs of promise[ but he's got to get the most out of the players we're stuck with until he can improve upon them. Which to a point I think he has. But when you watch performances against the likes of Fulham it makes you wonder. QUOTE="kenada_blue, post: 8534430, member: 1052"]
Of course...but I'm pretty sure your Shanks etc jibbed off players that didn't buy in or weren't commited to their way. Additionally there's only so much you can allow it.

In terms of Carlo here. He's give these players ample time to prove something.

And didnt Clough once say "Players lose you games, not tactics."

Exactly. Which is what I'm saying. These players can perform for a couple of games, then fall off a cliff. They've done the same under different managers.

So when a top manager comes in and it's still happens...there's an issue with the player IMO

 

[JLW]

Lets see where we are in May, we are all far to quick to judge after 90 mins on the back of a positive or negative result.
"we can beat anyone"/ "Were the worst team in the league"

Its February we have a chance of finishing the CL a great chance of getting EL and were in the QF of the FA cup.
If we was told this before a ball was kicked this season we would of bit your hand off to be where we are now.

We still have a game in hand and we win it were right in the mix.
This season isn't over by any stretch even if the inevitable happens at the weekend.

 

[Dario Terracotta]

Hope he rips into the officials/Klopp and their associated cronies in his presser tomorrow,I know he won't but I really would love him to go for the jugular and call these crying red shower out!!

 

[Thomasc]

That's a terrible take. You don't have just 1-2 chances to finish in the top 4 mate, you have 38 games to go through. A loss to Fulham at home won't be attributed as the reason we didn't make top 4.

Problem is we punched above our weight at the start of the season and nicked some big results, expectation has gone through the roof since then. Leicester have been consistently solid and chasing the pack for the past few years now, no shock they're ahead of us. I suspect by the end of the season we'll be comfortably behind the top 4 - just hope we can cling onto a European spot and that would represent a success for me.

I disagree mate.
We are constantly banging out the line that we have some top players, Keane, Mina, Digne, Godfrey, Dacoure, Rodriguez, Allan, DCL, Richarlison...yet we are ok with that collective group finishing 7th to 10th?
Do Leicester have much better players or are they just organised better? Or are they just more positive and actually go out and try and win football matches.
Genuine question.

 

[kenada_blue]

100 million well spent I'd say. But anyone who knows anything about the game could see their improvement and that they where heading in the right direction before those players came in.

Klopp also inherited that finished 2nd the previous year.

No doubt he improved them. But they already had a good base. He just needed a couple of players to get over the line.

 

[PhilRegan]

Took S A F 4 (?) years, I think. Can't see any reason why we should be different.

The investment alone suggests we are different straight off the bat.