2018/19 Cenk Tosun

[Simon Buttle]

Fully agree on all points.

He was far too expensive for a gamble. We probably should have been able to ascertain that he'd be too slow for the Premier League, but unfortunately didn't. He can finish, but is not dynamic enough to cut it imo. I'd be looking to get rid and I am sure that's what we're doing. Nice enough chap, by all accounts.

DCL has been one of the few success stories of this season for us. Easily Young Player of the Season for us, and I think the main award needs to go to Digne.

Not really a gamble as he had just been top goalscorer in the group stages of the CL that was the main reason we bought him, the trouble was that in an Allardyce hoofball system (ie 1 upfront) that was never going to get the best from him. We needed more of a big man upfront if we were going to play the Allardyce way, it was just an odd signing that's all but then Sam had been after him since his Palace days.

 

[Lanolin]

Not really a gamble as he had just been top goalscorer in the group stages of the CL that was the main reason we bought him, the trouble was that in an Allardyce hoofball system (ie 1 upfront) that was never going to get the best from him. We needed more of a big man upfront if we were going to play the Allardyce way, it was just an odd signing that's all but then Sam had been after him since his Palace days.

Well it must have been a gamble mustn't it, because it hasn't worked.

 

[Simon Buttle]

Well it must have been a gamble mustn't it, because it hasn't worked.

But we are partly to blame though as we have never really played him the way he played at his previous club or the way he plays for the national team, it's the same with Klassen, if you buy players then play them in their proper position, it does kinda help and will get the best out of them. I do agree that overall it has been slightly frustrating with him as you can see he has something about him, but im nowhere near as annoyed with this transfer as i am with the Walcott one as the signs were there with Theo that he would be a bad signing as he had admitted himself he had fallen out of love with football but we still went and signed him anyway.

 

[Lanolin]

But we are partly to blame though as we have never really played him the way he played at his previous club or the way he plays for the national team, it's the same with Klassen, if you buy players then play them in their proper position, it does kinda help and will get the best out of them. I do agree that overall it has been slightly frustrating with him as you can see he has something about him, but im nowhere near as annoyed with this transfer as i am with the Walcott one as the signs were there with Theo that he would be a bad signing as he had admitted himself he had fallen out of love with football but we still went and signed him anyway.

Personally I don't buy that. We've played in two very different ways and he's been largely ineffective in both of them. He's nowhere near good enough to have a team built around him, so I don't accept that it's our fault now that he's here. It was absolutely our fault that we bought him though, I think it was pretty clear after seeing him 2 or 3 times that he was struggling and we really should have foreseen that.

 

[Simon Buttle]

Personally I don't buy that. We've played in two very different ways and he's been largely ineffective in both of them. He's nowhere near good enough to have a team built around him, so I don't accept that it's our fault now that he's here. It was absolutely our fault that we bought him though, I think it was pretty clear after seeing him 2 or 3 times that he was struggling and we really should have foreseen that.

I agree with you that under Silva he does'nt fit into the team, we are just playing a different style of play. As you know he is a BFS signing and like i said Allardyce had been trying to sign him since his Palace days, so you would have to ask him as to why he was so desperate to sign Cenk, i can only think it was off the back of what he did in that CL and he did look good at times tbf.

 

[Cameron Manning]

He had him at Oldham didn't he?

Gerrard possibly just couldn't cope with the step up to the "big time".

Graeme Sharp told me Gerrard was a player who needed confidence, needed to be told he was a good goalkeeper, I honestly thought he was a poor goalkeeper, he made multiple mistakes, topped by the one in the Derby game when McCallister scored with a free kick from about forty yards when nearly everyone in the ground could see where McCallister was going to put it. You are correct, Sharp was his manager at Oldham.

 

[Brisan123]

But that's the aim
Unless everyone is happy with 7th being our 1st

We have the ability to spend 50m+ and gives 150k a week wages, that's enough to attract some decent players.

Like who
Keita
Now that’s a waste of money

 

[Goat]

Big Cenk to start?

 

[catcherintherye]

....I think he’s very ordinary and i’ve always been of the opinion he’s behind DCL in the queue (I think a lot more fans have come around to that view).

He just looks a lad who wouldn't cut it in the PL. I remember likening him to Jelavic & Soldado who in slower/more technical leagues were good, but in the PL struggled. He remains a really good finisher, but the issue is being able to get on the end of chances and having a team set up to make him lots of opportunities.

I am also toying with the idea that actually finishing ability isn't always what differentiates top strikers, but their ability to allow others to make them chances. If you take Lukaku, he does miss chances but he gets plenty each game. The size, power and physique of the guy means for a midfield player it must be quite easy to make him chances. You put the ball into space and he is on the end of it.

Tosun works hard and I imagine Allardyce could have got a tune out of him. However I'm unconvinced anyone of his physique and lack of pace has much of a chance in the PL.

 

[Eggs]

He just looks a lad who wouldn't cut it in the PL. I remember likening him to Jelavic & Soldado who in slower/more technical leagues were good, but in the PL struggled. He remains a really good finisher, but the issue is being able to get on the end of chances and having a team set up to make him lots of opportunities.

I am also toying with the idea that actually finishing ability isn't always what differentiates top strikers, but their ability to allow others to make them chances. If you take Lukaku, he does miss chances but he gets plenty each game. The size, power and physique of the guy means for a midfield player it must be quite easy to make him chances. You put the ball into space and he is on the end of it.

Tosun works hard and I imagine Allardyce could have got a tune out of him. However I'm unconvinced anyone of his physique and lack of pace has much of a chance in the PL.

....and it’s not just about converting chances, I think the very best create situations and chances for themselves. They will turn half chances into goals, they will create from nothing. I love my strikers to spread fear into their markers, so that when they come off the pitch they know they’ve been in a game.

I doubt any Premier League CBs will lose sleep over the prospect of facing Tosun.

 

[blueblue]

Fully agree on all points.

He was far too expensive for a gamble. We probably should have been able to ascertain that he'd be too slow for the Premier League, but unfortunately didn't. He can finish, but is not dynamic enough to cut it imo. I'd be looking to get rid and I am sure that's what we're doing. Nice enough chap, by all accounts.

DCL has been one of the few success stories of this season for us. Easily Young Player of the Season for us, and I think the main award needs to go to Digne.

In a different style of play he possibly could have made a bigger impact.
He is still at a good age , has shown that he can score goals and I think it won't be that difficult to find a buyer for him... the only thing that is uncertain is the level of loss.

 

[catcherintherye]

....and it’s not just about converting chances, I think the very best create situations and chances for themselves. They will turn half chances into goals, they will create from nothing. I love my strikers to spread fear into their markers, so that when they come off the pitch they know they’ve been in a game.

I doubt any Premier League CBs will lose sleep over the prospect of facing Tosun.

Yes exactly. I often had the view (and it's one perpetuated by the media) that the best strikers are the most clinical. There is some truth to that, but I do think the more important attribute as you say is to make chances for yourself. As I indicated above, Lukaku (especially when he's on song) must be a dream to play behind because you just stick it into the space in front of him and he makes things happen.

Tosun works hard and seems a good sort. However it was a bit of an ill thought out buy.

Calvert Lewin on the other hands clearly has the natural attributes to succeed.

 

[KaiserEFC]

Plenty of good players around here and abroad outside the top 6.

There's enough money for the fee and wages, more then enough to bring in some quality

If West ham can attract the likes of yaramolenko, Anderson, lanzini and arnoutivic, then we should be aiming for a level above that.

None of those are top 6 players though? Anderson maybe but only in the same way Shaqiri is for Liverpool. Also West Ham haven’t exactly been good have they? Some of the top teams in world football don’t have 20 goal a season strikers, they’re a hard commodity to find.

 

[Papa Shango]

Graeme Sharp told me Gerrard was a player who needed confidence, needed to be told he was a good goalkeeper, I honestly thought he was a poor goalkeeper, he made multiple mistakes, topped by the one in the Derby game when McCallister scored with a free kick from about forty yards when nearly everyone in the ground could see where McCallister was going to put it. You are correct, Sharp was his manager at Oldham.

His worst one for me was against Manchester United. We were 1-0 down to a Solskjear goal but we still in the game and playing well against the all conquering United. 10 minutes from the end an aimless ball was launched in to the back post and was going out of play, Gerrard proceeded to run out of his goal, miss the ball, punched Earl Barrett instead and the ball rolled off the pile of wreckage he had caused to Cantona who just rolled the ball into the net. This was the point I knew he was pretty bad.

I remember him playing well yet conceding 4 against Newcastle which sums him up really.

 

[Toffee-nerd]

I like him, dont really know why I just think hes a quality player. His link up play is beyond what we can expect from DCL currently. He doesnt seem to get into goal scoring positions enough when he does start and hes been prone to fluffing his lines when he has this season. It looks difficult for him to revive his career here, DCL is scoring and his ceiling is higher than Tosun so hes starting and rightly so. It would have been good to see Tosun start more especially now we have a settled (ish) side. He looks destined for the scrapheap but think there will be plenty of suitors for him so we shouldnt struggle to shift him on.