City Discussion: London

[Billy Dean]

On the other hand, the electronic music scene in London is pretty special. You can see pretty much whoever you want as they’ll all be playing in London at some point. I saw producers/DJs I’d wanted to see for years and in intimate venues.

I never saw trouble on any of these house/techno nights. There’s so much going on in the city that all the bell ends are with the other bell ends somewhere.

I’ll always say I had a good time in London and don’t regret it one bit, I just stayed a couple of years too long. Now I’m more principled and set in my ways I could never return.

I don't think I'd be capable of living there any more. Just too old and tired these days.

 

[dholliday]

They get everything, which is ridiculous given its non central location.

Central location has nothing to do with capital-weighting, look at other capitals of the world that get weighting: they're often not central but are on a crucial river, and have infrastructure dating back centuries (London/Londinium is near 2000 years old).

Then its the expense

i gather it's gotten more inaffordable, but in my recent history there we managed to rent a house-with-garden by Tooting/Mitcham for about a grand (so 350-ish each).

Got by on bikes rather than public transport, and ate at south-london caffs which had proper meals for a fiver.

Back then on my relatively crappy wages i got by fine, always had money left for a fun social life.


But yeah, i do appreciate things have maybe changed a lot in the last 15 years or so.

, the noise, the traffic

depends where you are, we didn't live on a main road so was fairly quiet.

and the fact you get fleeced at where action.

debatable...or rather such fleecing can happen anywhere.

Add to that the absolute bull that it is bigged up at every opportunity as being s great place - either by people with a vested interest in attracting mugs there to feast off them, or people who've never been outside of the festering swamp of financial obsession.

or bigged up by people who simply enjoy the place?

Fairly or not, it is by a huge margin the cultural capital of UK. But whether it's still the best place to live in 2022 i now have my doubts (due to rising crime & costs).

Great place to live if you have money.

Possibly the worst place to live in the UK, if you don’t.

As described above was fine for us low earners a couple of decades back, if mainly sticking to the South. But I defer to those with more recent experience on that front.

Not sure I agree with that.

Like Bruce.

The visible gulf, between the rich and the poor is like nowhere else in the UK.

some Northern cities might disagree. Poverty can be extremely grim & visible in grotty council estates, while a stone's throw up the road there'll be detached houses with walled-gardens keeping the comfortable middle-class cozy.

In London the distance-gap is at least more than a stone's throw. Highgate for example is many miles away from Clapham.

Having grown in in London I'd rather live here than any other major city, but I fully understand why it turns a lot of people off, as well as the facetious dislike from many. Like with anywhere, you either accept the downsides and make the most of the good stuff, or you end up a grumpy of douchbag.
I will say that I have a large preference for the west side of town, either SW or W/NW.

But there is no "best" in this context. Different people have different tastes. London has a lot going for it; so too do many other places. Ironically for some places the lack of something going on is what draws people to it.

Solid argument this.

even if you're not well off you can lead a fantastic life here as there are so many things here that you don't need to be rich to access.

oh aye, i used to love cycling there, just discovering stuff.

 

[Walken]

I don't think I'd be capable of living there any more. Just too old and tired these days.

The systematic gentrification is an issue also, my sister loved it there but moved back to Liverpool because after 10 years and many promotions in a good job she still couldn't afford to buy anything that would resemble a decent home.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Central location has nothing to do with capital-weighting, look at other capitals of the world that get weighting: they're often not central but are on a crucial river, and have infrastructure dating back centuries (London/Londinium is near 2000 years old).



i gather it's gotten more inaffordable, but in my recent history there we managed to rent a house-with-garden by Tooting/Mitcham for about a grand (so 350-ish each).

Got by on bikes rather than public transport, and ate at south-london caffs which had proper meals for a fiver.

Back then on my relatively crappy wages i got by fine, always had money left for a fun social life.


But yeah, i do appreciate things have maybe changed a lot in the last 15 years or so.



depends where you are, we didn't live on a main road so was fairly quiet.


debatable...or rather such fleecing can happen anywhere.


or bigged up by people who simply enjoy the place?

Fairly or not, it is by a huge margin the cultural capital of UK. But whether it's still the best place to live in 2022 i now have my doubts (due to rising crime & costs).



As described above was fine for us low earners a couple of decades back, if mainly sticking to the South. But I defer to those with more recent experience on that front.


Like Bruce.


some Northern cities might disagree. Poverty can be extremely grim & visible in grotty council estates, while a stone's throw up the road there'll be detached houses with walled-gardens keeping the comfortable middle-class cozy.

In London the distance-gap is at least more than a stone's throw. Highgate for example is many miles away from Clapham.



Solid argument this.


oh aye, i used to love cycling there, just discovering stuff.

A lot of "ifs and buts" there tbh.

Not for me, dislike it. Have friends who live and work in the area and are okay with it.

 

[Billy Dean]

In London the distance-gap is at least more than a stone's throw. Highgate for example is many miles away from Clapham.

Even in Clapham itself you've got a lot of rich/poor contrast

 

[dholliday]

I do have the impression though that it has changed in the 15 years or so since I used to be there regularly.

I get the same impression from my old contacts and the odd flying visit.

Does look like i left at a good time, incidentally was shortly after the 2005 terrorist attacks...a couple of days after that horrific Stockwell police-shooting (i was only about a hundred meters away when that happened, the police locked us all down).

I felt like i was leaving a place about to go insane.

On the other hand, the electronic music scene in London is pretty special.

oh yes...that part of London remains my very favourite. Not sure how underground scenes are nowadays, but back then Brixton & generally squat-party raves were immensely enjoyable.

I don't think I'd be capable of living there any more. Just too old and tired these days.

haha have to agree...i'm even getting tired of Berlin now. Just fancy a battered old house in some quiet village lol

 

[Papa Shango]

It's a boss place to be a tourist.

Wouldn't want to live there.

 

[Billy Dean]

haha have to agree...i'm even getting tired of Berlin now. Just fancy a battered old house in some quiet village lol

haha yeah I always wanted to live in Berlin but think that being past 40 I've probably missed my chance to get the most out of being there too. But when it comes to being tiring London is on a whole other level than Berlin IMO. Berlin is chilled in comparison.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The systematic gentrification is an issue also, my sister loved it there but moved back to Liverpool because after 10 years and many promotions in a good job she still couldn't afford to buy anything that would resemble a decent home.

It's a hard balance though. We live in Elephant & Castle, which generally had a pretty grotty reputation for a long time, as indeed did neighbouring Peckham, Brixton, Camberwell etc. All of these areas have changed quite a bit in recent years and are now much nicer, safer places to be. They are pricier as a result though. I speak as someone who lived in the Heygate when I first moved here and it was somewhat affordable but it was also grotty as hell. The key is to try and strike the right balance. The shopping area around us is now much nicer but still maintains a strong Afro-Caribbean and Latino influence that reflects the big communities in the area.

I'm in Brussels at the moment and I'm sure the area around the train station might be affordable but it's also horrendously grim. I wouldn't trade it for E&C at all.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Even in Clapham itself you've got a lot of rich/poor contrast

I'd say that most areas have that, it's just that it's often under the surface. I suspect if you said "Dulwich" to most people, they'd think it was very affluent, but the wife works in that area and there is tremendous destitution as well, it's just perhaps behind closed doors and being a primarily residential area you're less likely to get homeless people on the streets as they won't get the "passing trade" as much as areas where people go to work or shop.

 

[Walken]

It's a hard balance though. We live in Elephant & Castle, which generally had a pretty grotty reputation for a long time, as indeed did neighbouring Peckham, Brixton, Camberwell etc. All of these areas have changed quite a bit in recent years and are now much nicer, safer places to be. They are pricier as a result though. I speak as someone who lived in the Heygate when I first moved here and it was somewhat affordable but it was also grotty as hell. The key is to try and strike the right balance. The shopping area around us is now much nicer but still maintains a strong Afro-Caribbean and Latino influence that reflects the big communities in the area.

I'm in Brussels at the moment and I'm sure the area around the train station might be affordable but it's also horrendously grim. I wouldn't trade it for E&C at all.

Re-generation often gets exploited by profiteering at the expense of the existing community, which is a shame but I imagine difficult to control.

 

[Billy Dean]

The systematic gentrification is an issue also, my sister loved it there but moved back to Liverpool because after 10 years and many promotions in a good job she still couldn't afford to buy anything that would resemble a decent home.

Yeah that's the impression I get of the place. I know Germans here in Frankfurt who lived there and despite having good jobs they never had that much money left over at the end of the month

 

[coollino]

People who hate the whole of London are weird

 

[Baines' left foot]

haha yeah I always wanted to live in Berlin but think that being past 40 I've probably missed my chance to get the most out of being there too. But when it comes to being tiring London is on a whole other level than Berlin IMO. Berlin is chilled in comparison.

I’ve only visited Berlin once but I fell in love with it. It’s got all the good bits of London but without the bad bits.

 

[dholliday]

haha yeah I always wanted to live in Berlin but think that being past 40 I've probably missed my chance to get the most out of being there too.

i wouldn't say that. For London yeah, but not for Berlin. Even the party scenes here are at a lesser hedonistic level, you see many middle-aged types about. Social-life scenes generally look like they have an older average age than the London equivalents.

When you're 40+ just getting on a bike and cycling round can be excellent fun, and you won't get bored of that for years.


But me personally i've rinsed this city: lived in most of the central Bezirks, been all over other than the very north (Pankow is still a mystery to me). Köpenick is wildly-underrated...large forests, massive lake and a smalltown-vibey Altstadt. But the dreamy pull of a house-with-garden is calling, and that's only financially-feasible for us in sleepy areas of deepest Sachsen lol

I reckon if you ever do make the move to Berlin, you'll have enough energy & motivation to enjoy yourself for at least a decade or two. Deffo not too-old at 40+ at any rate.