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Commercial Airliners

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Is there anyone who understands law enough to interpret this beyond the "Oh $h*t!" level?

Seems really bad
Most generous interpretation I’ve seen is it could be a delaying/negotiation tactic that will be eventually resolved but given how apparently unusual it is to use it for a subpoena of documents I’m leaning more to the Oh S conclusion for now.

@arch stanton saw this in another article that may help clarify
While the Fifth Amendment protects people from testifying against themselves, it “usually does not apply to being required to produce documents because producing a document is not the same as being required to testify,” said University of Washington law professor Jeffrey Feldman.

But there are exceptions that allow the privilege to be asserted where “the mere act of producing the document” may be seen as an incriminating act, Feldman said. Paul Rothstein, a Georgetown University law professor, said documents may show a person “has them, knows about them or admits they exist.” “This information can often be somewhat incriminating of that person and thus covered by his Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination,” Rothstein said.
Some courts have held that broad document requests require the person to “use his or her mental processes to interpret and respond to the subpoena, and the production itself could be viewed as testimonial,” said Peter Joy, a Washington University law professor.

In Forkner’s case, Feldman said, it could turn on the type of documents. “Are these the employee’s personal documents? His diary or personal emails? Or are they Boeing’s documents?” Forkner could ask for immunity from use of the information in the documents, or prosecutors could offer it, the experts said.

“Such immunity means the revealed information cannot be used in any way in any investigation of him or any criminal prosecution of him,” Rothstein said, noting that it is not a blanket immunity from investigation or prosecution based on evidence obtained elsewhere. It is “just an immunity from use of this particular evidence or information,” he said.

But prosecutors can independently seek other evidence, Feldman said. He said if there is a plausible assertion of the privilege, it would “not be unusual to see the government offer” of immunity. “It could just be the kind of waltz you often see in cases like this, by which individuals who are concerned that they may get swept up in a criminal matter try and obtain some protection and assurances to lower their risk,” Feldman said. “Or it could be much more significant both for the individual or the company.”
 
Most generous interpretation I’ve seen is it could be a delaying/negotiation tactic that will be eventually resolved but given how apparently unusual it is to use it for a subpoena of documents I’m leaning more to the Oh S conclusion for now.

@arch stanton saw this in another article that may help clarify
While the Fifth Amendment protects people from testifying against themselves, it “usually does not apply to being required to produce documents because producing a document is not the same as being required to testify,” said University of Washington law professor Jeffrey Feldman.

But there are exceptions that allow the privilege to be asserted where “the mere act of producing the document” may be seen as an incriminating act, Feldman said. Paul Rothstein, a Georgetown University law professor, said documents may show a person “has them, knows about them or admits they exist.” “This information can often be somewhat incriminating of that person and thus covered by his Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination,” Rothstein said.
Some courts have held that broad document requests require the person to “use his or her mental processes to interpret and respond to the subpoena, and the production itself could be viewed as testimonial,” said Peter Joy, a Washington University law professor.

In Forkner’s case, Feldman said, it could turn on the type of documents. “Are these the employee’s personal documents? His diary or personal emails? Or are they Boeing’s documents?” Forkner could ask for immunity from use of the information in the documents, or prosecutors could offer it, the experts said.

“Such immunity means the revealed information cannot be used in any way in any investigation of him or any criminal prosecution of him,” Rothstein said, noting that it is not a blanket immunity from investigation or prosecution based on evidence obtained elsewhere. It is “just an immunity from use of this particular evidence or information,” he said.

But prosecutors can independently seek other evidence, Feldman said. He said if there is a plausible assertion of the privilege, it would “not be unusual to see the government offer” of immunity. “It could just be the kind of waltz you often see in cases like this, by which individuals who are concerned that they may get swept up in a criminal matter try and obtain some protection and assurances to lower their risk,” Feldman said. “Or it could be much more significant both for the individual or the company.”

Saw that, but Forkner now works for SWA I understand, so if he's claiming 5th amendment rights on behalf of another party, seems like that actually makes him liable for other crimes (covering up, etc), even if he does not have to incriminate himself for anything he may have done (not reported, etc)*

*I have no training, authorization, jurisdiction, nor responsibility to offer counsel or advise on any legal matter concerning this case nor any other legal matter in the United States or elsewhere
 
Saw that, but Forkner now works for SWA I understand, so if he's claiming 5th amendment rights on behalf of another party, seems like that actually makes him liable for other crimes (covering up, etc), even if he does not have to incriminate himself for anything he may have done (not reported, etc)*

*I have no training, authorization, jurisdiction, nor responsibility to offer counsel or advise on any legal matter concerning this case nor any other legal matter in the United States or elsewhere
With the same * that I’m no lawyer my best guess is it will end in Forkner getting immunity for whatever him might have done/known so he can be used as a witness against other parties either individual or corporate
 
With the same * that I’m no lawyer my best guess is it will end in Forkner getting immunity for whatever him might have done/known so he can be used as a witness against other parties either individual or corporate

If Boeing spent billions to build a boondoggle of an aircraft, that's bad

If Boeing spent billions to build a boondoggle of an aircraft and then spent considerable effort covering up what they knew was wrong with it, that's not only criminal, it's the end of Boeing

If I was a trading man, shorting BA would sound like a good idea
 
If Boeing spent billions to build a boondoggle of an aircraft, that's bad

If Boeing spent billions to build a boondoggle of an aircraft and then spent considerable effort covering up what they knew was wrong with it, that's not only criminal, it's the end of Boeing

If I was a trading man, shorting BA would sound like a good idea
now there's a word one doesn't hear every day. We have a cunning linguist amongst our ranks
 



What stands out to me is the amount of traffic on the right and the lack of an airport in the north!


Some of that is due to time of day and some is due to population density (not dense "in the north")

Here is a 24 hour video, and you can see some interesting things here: redeye flights from west coast to east, freight at FedEx (MEM) and UPS (SDF, near CVG) and Amazon (CVG), and early morning business travel on the east coast



*didn't realize the video had narration, oh well, same info either way
 


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