I hear you but I'm not even raving about them, I'm saying that they've individually been good central defenders. They immediately looked comfortable on the team and their teammates have spoken about the influence they've had behind the scenes and on the pitch. Some of that I've seen in examples (eg Tarkowski has stood up for his teammates in a way that others here have not for years, Coady actually opens his mouth which is a nice change from some of our other defenders) but overall the impact has been small. I won't dispute that. Personally I think they've been a step up from what Keane, Holgate and Godfrey have given us the last two seasons. I'm tired of the misplaced moaning where people say they've been awful all season. It's so tiring. The tactics have been so naive in some of these games that it's really hard to blame those two, for me.