Conspiracy theories

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

So.... it seems Aldo was right @Yarrgh it IS Chinese fru!

 

[verreauxi]

It seems that the idea that Covid-19 may have come from the massive Coronavirus testing laboratory in Wuhan, is no longer considered ‘tin foil hat nonsense’.

It reminds me a bit of that time we were all told that Iraq were definitely harbouring weapons of mass destruction, only to be told it was a complete lie.

COVID origin: Evidence of lab leak that may have caused coronavirus would have been destroyed by China, ex-MI6 chief says

Initially widely dismissed as conspiracy theories, claims the virus may have escaped from a Wuhan laboratory are gaining traction.

www.google.com

There were lots of different versions of the "lab escape" hypothesis, to be fair: 1) a genetically-engineered virus orchestrated by China to unleash on the world for nefarious purposes of conquering it; 2) a genetically engineered virus made by Chinese scientists for the purpose of investigating "virus technology", including vaccines; and 3) a zoonotic virus that jumped from bats to humans and was captured in the wild (so to speak) that was brought into the lab and later escaped (so to speak) due to lax safety protocols.

#3 is gaining traction. #1 and #2 are not supported, as there is no evidence the virus was genetically engineered by humans (as it stands now).

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

There were lots of different versions of the "lab escape" hypothesis, to be fair: 1) a genetically-engineered virus orchestrated by China to unleash on the world for nefarious purposes of conquering it; 2) a genetically engineered virus made by Chinese scientists for the purpose of investigating "virus technology", including vaccines; and 3) a zoonotic virus that jumped from bats to humans and was captured in the wild (so to speak) that was brought into the lab and later escaped (so to speak) due to lax safety protocols.

#3 is gaining traction. #1 and #2 are not supported, as there is no evidence the virus was genetically engineered by humans (as it stands now).

I was thinking that - its probably human error rather than anything nefarious. Studying it and messed up safety protocols.

But the pointy head tin foil crew won't have that.

 

[verreauxi]

 

[verreauxi]

man-engineered, or rather 'genetically tweaked' to enable 'gain of function'. Occam's razor suggests (to me...but I am a cynic lol), it's been genetically tweaked to cross infect different species. My belief is, and always has been, an adapted (via scientists) virus 'escaped' from the Wuhan lab.
And knowing the propensities of man to design ways to destroy other humans, Occams razor also suggests humans' weaponising of viruses is certain.

I'm not sure why you put "escaped" in quotes. Do you think it was purposely released?

 

[deipnosophist]

I'm not sure why you put "escaped" in quotes. Do you think it was purposely released?

"escaped" because i think some of the security at that Lab was pretty amateur...the highest security level is 4...parts of that lab had levels as low as 2.
Hence. it didn't take much 'escaping'...rather it was shown the door

 

[verreauxi]

"escaped" because i think some of the security at that Lab was pretty amateur...the highest security level is 4...parts of that lab had levels as low as 2.
Hence. it didn't take much 'escaping'...rather it was shown the door

There is often not much security oversight in BL2 labs (having worked in one for six years) apart from lots of repetive training and personal responsibility; much much much more for BL4, from what I understand. But SARS is often classified as needing a BL3 level, not BL4, and I'm not (obviously) familiar with what the Wuhan lab had in place. I suspect that folks will be revisiting the Biohazard safety levels in light of this pandemic. Covid-19 was a "slow-burn" with respect to its symptoms, infection rate, and lethality. BL4 is usually reserved for Ebola, small pox, etc., which appears to be based on their contagious effects and lethality (you catch it, you're dead, with few to no exceptions). With SARS viruses we see a much more variable set of symptoms, lethality, and contagiousness (hence its BL3 designation), even though it was devastating to humanity and the world economy. I don't suspect the origin of this current virus, if it escaped from a lab, to be purposeful.

 

[deipnosophist]

There is often not much security oversight in BL2 labs (having worked in one for six years) apart from lots of repetive training and personal responsibility; much much much more for BL4, from what I understand. But SARS is often classified as needing a BL3 level, not BL4, and I'm not (obviously) familiar with what the Wuhan lab had in place. I suspect that folks will be revisiting the Biohazard safety levels in light of this pandemic. Covid-19 was a "slow-burn" with respect to its symptoms, infection rate, and lethality. BL4 is usually reserved for Ebola, small pox, etc., which appears to be based on their contagious effects and lethality (you catch it, you're dead, with few to no exceptions). With SARS viruses we see a much more variable set of symptoms, lethality, and contagiousness (hence its BL3 designation), even though it was devastating to humanity and the world economy. I don't suspect the origin of this current virus, if it escaped from a lab, to be purposeful.

as i said, I am not asserting premeditated deliberate release...but I do think the contagion probably originated from the lab (not the wet market), and that security protocols were questionable. And I want thorough, disinterested investigations into the matter so such questions can be answered.

 

[dholliday]

I was thinking that - its probably human error rather than anything nefarious. Studying it and messed up safety protocols.

But the pointy head tin foil crew won't have that.

i used to be a believer in human chaos theory: as in the opposite of conspiracy theorists who think everything is meticulously planned: i thought rather that chaotic bad things happened because we humans are all just winging it.

but the coordinated consistent worldwide response to the pandemic, plus coordinated media/corporate/government responses to things like woke-culture, the elevation of figures like Greta Thunberg, and the shutting down of alternative ideas have got me thinking that maybe there is less chaos behind things after all.

Regarding the virus's origins: China's panicked reaction in the early days was an indicator that they knew more than they were letting on, or taking the non-chaos theory up a notch: they intentionally painted a panicked picture (building makeshift hospitals, welding doors shut, people collapsing in the streets) to more effectively convince the West that something deadly serious was on its way.

Curiouser and curiouser the deeper down the hole we go....

 

[dholliday]

oh hello

Chinese Scientists create hybrid flu that can go airborne

 

[PhilM]

Iraq using gas during the Iran war and on the Kurds lead me to believe they did have a stockpile at some point- likely bought from the countries that invaded them to secure WMDs.

Prior to 1991, it's been acknowledged that Sadam and his regime not only experimented with NBC weapons but had the latter two to different extents.

To a lesser extent, this continued in the early-to-mid 90s until it was dramatically scaled back, which UNSCOM and other external agencies acknowledged.

We then have a situation in the late 90s and early 2000s, where Iraq either had no programme and incredibly limited stock (relics) or a very limited programme.

So that brings about the question, why did we invade Iraq? I don't think it's a simple as doing it purely for oil and contracts as there was a real concern of WMDs.

But, perhaps, the fear of WMDs allowed the evidence to be embellished to meet other geo-political goals all mixed in with the greed and ambitions of others.

There was a genuine concern that Sadam was rekindling his weapons programmes, which meant that maybe people ignored the (lack of) actual evidence.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

i used to be a believer in human chaos theory: as in the opposite of conspiracy theorists who think everything is meticulously planned: i thought rather that chaotic bad things happened because we humans are all just winging it.

but the coordinated consistent worldwide response to the pandemic, plus coordinated media/corporate/government responses to things like woke-culture, the elevation of figures like Greta Thunberg, and the shutting down of alternative ideas have got me thinking that maybe there is less chaos behind things after all.

Regarding the virus's origins: China's panicked reaction in the early days was an indicator that they knew more than they were letting on, or taking the non-chaos theory up a notch: they intentionally painted a panicked picture (building makeshift hospitals, welding doors shut, people collapsing in the streets) to more effectively convince the West that something deadly serious was on its way.

Curiouser and curiouser the deeper down the hole we go....

Are you owning up to pointy head tin foil hat tendencies here?

 

[deipnosophist]

I met a guy once who told me at the time of the Iraq war that there was a conspiracy theory that the U.K. still owned Washington DC as it wasn’t an official state of the US and it was the U.K. who pressed for the invasion. I mean, neither of us believed it but it’s a good one.

I heard UK also owned a grassy knoll in Texas...in Dallas I think...

 

[deipnosophist]

i used to be a believer in human chaos theory: as in the opposite of conspiracy theorists who think everything is meticulously planned: i thought rather that chaotic bad things happened because we humans are all just winging it.

but the coordinated consistent worldwide response to the pandemic, plus coordinated media/corporate/government responses to things like woke-culture, the elevation of figures like Greta Thunberg, and the shutting down of alternative ideas have got me thinking that maybe there is less chaos behind things after all.

Regarding the virus's origins: China's panicked reaction in the early days was an indicator that they knew more than they were letting on, or taking the non-chaos theory up a notch: they intentionally painted a panicked picture (building makeshift hospitals, welding doors shut, people collapsing in the streets) to more effectively convince the West that something deadly serious was on its way.

Curiouser and curiouser the deeper down the hole we go....

The 'Deep State' have everything meticulously planned...which is why chaos theory outcomes are anathema to them...it stuffs up their nefarious schemes.

 

[dholliday]

The 'Deep State' have everything meticulously planned...which is why chaos theory outcomes are anathema to them...it stuffs up their nefarious schemes.

chaos theory can't be countered by anything, not Deep State, not even the gods.

Either chaos theory is a thing (i.e. set the table, and let the balls fall where they may), or it is not (powers-that-be/gods are behind everything).