Conspiracy theories

[magicjuan]

Isn't the whole middle east issue about the oil? Sometimes they just come up with a convenient excuse to use to justify it.

Here's a conspiracy with absolutely no base to it but wouldn't surprise me. Israel is actively hindering global efforts to move away from fossil fuels, because when the US doesn't need oil, they will ignore the middle east and Israel will be destroyed by its neighbours.

As Lulu as it may seem, all aggressive governments with vested interests in the middle east also tend to be lead or guided by religious fundamentalism. It was the common ground for Bush and Blair, who jumped ship for the whole 'mea culpa' experience.
Don't overlook religion as an influence. Some believe(d) they were carrying out armageddon/ bringing on the rapture with divine providence.

 

[dholliday]

Here's a conspiracy with absolutely no base to it but wouldn't surprise me. Israel is actively hindering global efforts to move away from fossil fuels, because when the US doesn't need oil, they will ignore the middle east and Israel will be destroyed by its neighbours.

Trump's administration attempted less reliance on middle-eastern oil by developing american pipelines. Those 4 years were arguably the quietest, most peaceful Israel/Palestine period in living memory.

A mate of mine is from Gaza (arab muslim...lives in Germany now). We regular discuss the situation...he's been in bits of late as you can imagine, he's got family there: during one call with a cousin he heard a rocket-whizz and a loud explosion, thankfully it was seemingly a block away or so. He has heard of deaths of neighbours he once knew.

He tells me the typical sentiment among the normal folk there is not one of wanting to destroy Israel at all, they want to live amongst or peacefully near their Israeli brothers: many of them have built up relationships, working & personal. He says the issue is Israeli-politik, always been the issue, and that Hamas is a natural counter-consequence of that politics. He admits Hamas stir the pot too...generally the political-sentiment to 'wipe Israel from the map' doesn't come from arab people, it comes from shitstirring politicians & religious leaders, as a response to the brutal Israeli-settlement-politik. The people are sick of it all, they have nothing against jewish folk, they just want a peaceful life.

I've heard similar sentiments from another mate who was from Jordan, back during that awful summer from around 2012-ish, where rockets were raining down constantly. And also from, of all places, fast-food chicken restaurants where all the workers are from Lebanon. With one bloke there i'd have regular chats too.

They all sound sincere, pained even when they talk about it.

Many years ago i chatted to an israeli, his angle was quite different: he supported his country's policies as it was a defence mechanism against those random suicide-bombs. He told me i can't possibly know how intense it can be unless i've been there (Tel-Aviv). He also sounded sincere, having an attitude of 'if they attack us, we defend ourselves'.

Which is also understandable.

Horrible messy situation. I asked my Gaza mate just last night if Netanyahu being ousted is a good thing, he said not really as the new guy (Bennett) is even worse: Bennett is on record saying he's personally killed arabs etc. My mate reckons the only positive is that the new guy says exactly what he thinks, he doesn't hide behind political-rhetorik. Also, on an optimistic note, that Bennett has shown signs of willingness to compromise if it means an end to conflict.

So no, there is no conspiracy to manage middle-eastern oil to protect Israel. Oil has always been about the money: US-meddling in oil there causes local strife, which in turn ups the demand for arms, which US firms happily supply. The total number of innocent lives lost, and homes destroyed, is irrelevant to those wanting to make money. There's more money to be made this way than Trump's vision of local american pipelines.

But Orange Man Bad because his pipeline would've gone under a Native American settlement.

 

[ste d' indica]

chaos theory can't be countered by anything, not Deep State, not even the gods.

Either chaos theory is a thing (i.e. set the table, and let the balls fall where they may), or it is not (powers-that-be/gods are behind everything).

Not sure you understand what Chaos Theory is.

 

[deipnosophist]

Isn't the whole middle east issue about the oil? Sometimes they just come up with a convenient excuse to use to justify it.

Here's a conspiracy with absolutely no base to it but wouldn't surprise me. Israel is actively hindering global efforts to move away from fossil fuels, because when the US doesn't need oil, they will ignore the middle east and Israel will be destroyed by its neighbours.

Some folk see Israel as the 51st state of USA...I see it as the No1. Israel says 'jump!' and USA says 'how high?'

 

[grandjoeblue]

I have always questioned the moon landings. I find it odd the way it was achieved multiple times 50 years ago and technology is on a completely different level in the modern world but it has not been visited for such a long period of time. I know some would argue that theres no real need to go to the moon but surely if it was relatively doable China or Russia would go?

 

[WA Toffee]

I have always questioned the moon landings. I find it odd the way it was achieved multiple times 50 years ago and technology is on a completely different level in the modern world but it has not been visited for such a long period of time. I know some would argue that theres no real need to go to the moon but surely if it was relatively doable China or Russia would go?

The thing I don't understand about moon landing conspiracies, is just how many people would have to be involved in it. It would have to run into the hundreds, if not thousands. And in several countries (Australia was responsible for relaying the communications when they were on our side of the planet) And every single one of them has kept it a secret for 50 years. And the Soviets never found out about it, because they would have absolutely loved to prove the US had faked it.

The conspiracy would probably have been harder to pull off than actually sending people to the moon.

 

[dholliday]

Not sure you understand what Chaos Theory is.

in that case it's a good job you've explained it here for us x

 

[dholliday]

Not sure you understand what Chaos Theory is.

What's your take, ste? Aside from the mathematical definition, that is.

Chaos Theory in the real world: set the table and let the pieces fall where they may: i.e. let the Dominoes fall, we can't control how they fall, only Chaos Theory can predict it (which we then see in hindsight and may detect patterns from). i.e. let the Butterfly flap its wings and we will have no control over the route of its potentially chaotic effect, it might even lead to a storm on the other side of the world. i.e. vote for any politician you like, who knows how it might end up?
Chaos Theory posits if we zoom out enough, we can make order out of it, as we are humans and we like to see patterns everywhere: endless feedback loops of chaos-into-order and back again. We can't really predict things with any certainty. We can't control things. We created Chaos Theory to satisfy our need to see patterns in chaotic natural occurrences. Mathematically it appears provable, in real-life applications however it does not (like when predicting short-term weather, or consequences of elections/pandemics etc).

opposite of Chaos...is pre-planned Order: let the pieces fall however you want, they will still order in a certain pattern: i.e. vote for any politician you like, he's still controlled by The Deep State who will control things anyway. Let a pandemic happen, the powers-that-be will know exactly how it will run.

The counter to this, is that the Deep State is so mathematically-advanced, that they've learnt to accurately use Chaos Theory to program real-life events: i.e. let the pandemic run, knowing that each chaotic stage will return to a manageable pre-planned order. That they planned all this: The Great Reset, Build Back Better etc. This is a possible conspiracy theory which would render my earlier post about Chaos Theory redundant. But this would require an astonishing degree of accuracy, as any random 'butterfly flap' can seriously change the game.

Hence my earlier post:

chaos theory can't be countered by anything, not Deep State, not even the gods.

Either chaos theory is a thing (i.e. set the table, and let the balls fall where they may), or it is not (powers-that-be/gods are behind everything).

 

[ste d' indica]

What's your take, ste? Aside from the mathematical definition, that is.

Chaos Theory in the real world: set the table and let the pieces fall where they may: i.e. let the Dominoes fall, we can't control how they fall, only Chaos Theory can predict it (which we then see in hindsight and may detect patterns from). i.e. let the Butterfly flap its wings and we will have no control over the route of its potentially chaotic effect, it might even lead to a storm on the other side of the world. i.e. vote for any politician you like, who knows how it might end up?
Chaos Theory posits if we zoom out enough, we can make order out of it, as we are humans and we like to see patterns everywhere: endless feedback loops of chaos-into-order and back again. We can't really predict things with any certainty. We can't control things. We created Chaos Theory to satisfy our need to see patterns in chaotic natural occurrences. Mathematically it appears provable, in real-life applications however it does not (like when predicting short-term weather, or consequences of elections/pandemics etc).

opposite of Chaos...is pre-planned Order: let the pieces fall however you want, they will still order in a certain pattern: i.e. vote for any politician you like, he's still controlled by The Deep State who will control things anyway. Let a pandemic happen, the powers-that-be will know exactly how it will run.

The counter to this, is that the Deep State is so mathematically-advanced, that they've learnt to accurately use Chaos Theory to program real-life events: i.e. let the pandemic run, knowing that each chaotic stage will return to a manageable pre-planned order. That they planned all this: The Great Reset, Build Back Better etc. This is a possible conspiracy theory which would render my earlier post about Chaos Theory redundant. But this would require an astonishing degree of accuracy, as any random 'butterfly flap' can seriously change the game.

Hence my earlier post:

Aside from the mathematical definition

Personally, I'd have stopped right there.

 

[dholliday]

Aside from the mathematical definition

Personally, I'd have stopped right there.

the point of mathematical theory is to consider how it impacts understanding of real-world stuff. stopping there is the antithesis of why we develop such theories in the first place.

furthermore, chaos theory is often used by writers colloquially to describe certain events or individual philosophies. here's 3 Trumpian examples:

Opinion | Trump’s Chaos Theory

His combative style may force a truce between the country’s ‘two nations.’ But not any time soon.

www.wsj.com

The Trump chaos theory for how to beat impeachment

Analysis: While Democrats need a clear message for voters, the president just needs to give Republican lawmakers options to keep them from jumping ship.

www.nbcnews.com

Trump’s Chaos Theory of Government

In the weeks since Donald Trump's inauguration as President of the United States, it has become clear that he intends to roll back the progressive-egalitarian agenda that is commonly associated with "political correctness" to the starting block – not just in the United States, but globally.

www.nacion.com

 

[ste d' indica]

the point of mathematical theory is to consider how it impacts understanding of real-world stuff. stopping there is the antithesis of why we develop such theories in the first place.

furthermore, chaos theory is often used by writers colloquially to describe certain events or individual philosophies. here's 3 Trumpian examples:

Opinion | Trump’s Chaos Theory

His combative style may force a truce between the country’s ‘two nations.’ But not any time soon.

www.wsj.com

The Trump chaos theory for how to beat impeachment

Analysis: While Democrats need a clear message for voters, the president just needs to give Republican lawmakers options to keep them from jumping ship.

www.nbcnews.com

Trump’s Chaos Theory of Government

In the weeks since Donald Trump's inauguration as President of the United States, it has become clear that he intends to roll back the progressive-egalitarian agenda that is commonly associated with "political correctness" to the starting block – not just in the United States, but globally.

www.nacion.com

I'd have stopped there rather than chuck out a load of fuzzy conjecture, and please don't lecture me on the fundamental application of mathematical theory while quoting loose associations to sociological outcomes.

 

[dholliday]

I'd have stopped there rather than chuck out a load of fuzzy conjecture, and please don't lecture me on the fundamental application of mathematical theory while quoting loose associations to sociological outcomes.

You're not saying anything at all, other than insinuating you know better.

a bit arrogant, mate.

i'm not lecturing you, i'm offering my take as you said earlier i may have it wrong. Maybe i do, but you're not telling us why.

 

[Tramps_mate]

The thing I don't understand about moon landing conspiracies, is just how many people would have to be involved in it. It would have to run into the hundreds, if not thousands. And in several countries (Australia was responsible for relaying the communications when they were on our side of the planet) And every single one of them has kept it a secret for 50 years. And the Soviets never found out about it, because they would have absolutely loved to prove the US had faked it.

The conspiracy would probably have been harder to pull off than actually sending people to the moon.

Maybe very few knew. The rocket launched they were in space etc etc. But the 'live' feeds of the landing were fed to control having been filmed already? I know its a highly unlikely case and would need amazing planning. But a relatively few people would know the truth..

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

The thing I don't understand about moon landing conspiracies, is just how many people would have to be involved in it. It would have to run into the hundreds, if not thousands. And in several countries (Australia was responsible for relaying the communications when they were on our side of the planet) And every single one of them has kept it a secret for 50 years. And the Soviets never found out about it, because they would have absolutely loved to prove the US had faked it.

The conspiracy would probably have been harder to pull off than actually sending people to the moon.

Absolutely this. 12 men walked on the moon. 62 astronauts flew in the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo programs. Countless thousands more were involved in building multiple rockets, service modules, lunar landers, computer systems etc. The simple reason it's never been attempted since is cost. The only reason it happened in the first place was the Cold War, the Soviets had beaten the US to almost every other space record (first satellite, first animals in space, first man in space, first woman in space, first space walk) and the fear was that the Zond rockets were capable of taking two cosmonauts to the moon first.

I should also add I've read the memoirs of moonwalkers Buzz Aldrin, John Young, Gene Cernan and Neil Armstrong. There's so much literature, photo evidence, film footage etc that can be accessed by anybody, it's risible to think it was faked.

 

[Tramps_mate]

Isn't the whole middle east issue about the oil? Sometimes they just come up with a convenient excuse to use to justify it.

Here's a conspiracy with absolutely no base to it but wouldn't surprise me. Israel is actively hindering global efforts to move away from fossil fuels, because when the US doesn't need oil, they will ignore the middle east and Israel will be destroyed by its neighbours.

ISIS was over gas. A new gas line was to be built by The Iranians and Russians from Iran, through Syria to Turkey, to sell gas much cheaper to Europe.

ISIS were utilised to put a stop to this and they were funded but then went rogue...