Conspiracy theories

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

Maybe very few knew. The rocket launched they were in space etc etc. But the 'live' feeds of the landing were fed to control having been filmed already? I know its a highly unlikely case and would need amazing planning. But a relatively few people would know the truth..

But there were six moon landings in total, plus three other manned missions that went into orbit around the moon. That's 24 people who were there in person. If they faked it once with Apollo 11, why on Earth would they fake Apollos 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 & 17 as well?

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

You're not saying anything at all, other than insinuating you know better.

a bit arrogant, mate.

i'm not lecturing you, i'm offering my take as you said earlier i may have it wrong. Maybe i do, but you're not telling us why.

You do realise that this is exactly how you come across when you post?

 

[dholliday]

You do realise that this is exactly how you come across when you post?

i'm at least offering a view. and i admit my view may be wrong. and if someone openly states i am wrong, i think it's fair to expect some kind of counter as to why.

maybe arrogance means something else where you're from.

 

[ste d' indica]

You're not saying anything at all, other than insinuating you know better.

a bit arrogant, mate.

i'm not lecturing you, i'm offering my take as you said earlier i may have it wrong. Maybe i do, but you're not telling us why.

Chaos Theory is mathematical modelling to identify underlying patterns in seemingly random systems, particularly where initial factors have influence over time.

You're then setting up a standoff of absolutes between a non existent social strategy that's more in line with anarchy, vs an equally non existent 'deep state' form of social control, and to be honest I'm struggling to see your point.

I might put more stock in your thinking if you didn't quote articles to back up your examples of chaos theory in the real world that have absolutely nothing to do with it aside from having the phrase in the title.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Let me guess, our resident YouTube academic is trying to create arguments using things he’s watched online against people who actually know what they’re talking about again. Best stick him on ignore.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

i'm at least offering a view. and i admit my view may be wrong. and if someone openly states i am wrong, i think it's fair to expect some kind of counter as to why.

maybe arrogance means something else where you're from.

I'm from Liverpool, now living in Australia, so I doubt my definition is any different to yours. And I should add that I'm not just talking about this thread, I'm talking about many of your posts across different topics.

 

[dholliday]

Chaos Theory is mathematical modelling to identify underlying patterns in seemingly random systems, particularly where initial factors have influence over time.

You're then setting up a standoff of absolutes between a non existent social strategy that's more in line with anarchy, vs an equally non existent 'deep state' form of social control, and to be honest I'm struggling to see your point.

yes, and a seemingly random system can be anything: like say the pandemic. either the pandemic is meticulously planned, or it is beholden to Chaos Theory (which we in hindsight will see patterns due to different factor causing different outcomes...like mutations). I don't think we can use Chaos Theory to accurately predict the outcome of the pandemic beforehand. We can only identify the 'chaos' thereafter.

i think you'd struggle with those articles i linked, or any other form of using the term outside of the dry mathematical boundaries. But like it or not, the term is part of our culture, and people like to use it as an angle to better understand real-world happenings. The concept has, you could say, transcended it own mathematical boundaries. if i've used it wrong, then i happily admit it, if i understand how i've used it wrong.

 

[degsy]

as i said, I am not asserting premeditated deliberate release...but I do think the contagion probably originated from the lab (not the wet market), and that security protocols were questionable. And I want thorough, disinterested investigations into the matter so such questions can be answered.

I'll take the Lab origins as read and go further to say it was probably accidental.
But I remain convinced that the main initial spreading vector was the Wuhan Military Forces Games in Oct 2019.

 

[dholliday]

I have always questioned the moon landings. I find it odd the way it was achieved multiple times 50 years ago and technology is on a completely different level in the modern world but it has not been visited for such a long period of time. I know some would argue that theres no real need to go to the moon but surely if it was relatively doable China or Russia would go?

My understanding is the sheer cost & effort was so massive, that the only reward making it worthwhile was winning the race to be first. From an exploration, settling or mineral viewpoint, Mars appears to be more worthwhile.

China have landed on the moon, albeit only with craft. The Russians landed on Venus in the 70's (also only craft).

The thing I don't understand about moon landing conspiracies, is just how many people would have to be involved in it. It would have to run into the hundreds, if not thousands. And in several countries (Australia was responsible for relaying the communications when they were on our side of the planet) And every single one of them has kept it a secret for 50 years. And the Soviets never found out about it, because they would have absolutely loved to prove the US had faked it.

The conspiracy would probably have been harder to pull off than actually sending people to the moon.

Agreed.

Maybe very few knew. The rocket launched they were in space etc etc. But the 'live' feeds of the landing were fed to control having been filmed already? I know its a highly unlikely case and would need amazing planning. But a relatively few people would know the truth..

Absolutely this. 12 men walked on the moon. 62 astronauts flew in the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo programs. Countless thousands more were involved in building multiple rockets, service modules, lunar landers, computer systems etc. The simple reason it's never been attempted since is cost. The only reason it happened in the first place was the Cold War, the Soviets had beaten the US to almost every other space record (first satellite, first animals in space, first man in space, first woman in space, first space walk) and the fear was that the Zond rockets were capable of taking two cosmonauts to the moon first.

I should also add I've read the memoirs of moonwalkers Buzz Aldrin, John Young, Gene Cernan and Neil Armstrong. There's so much literature, photo evidence, film footage etc that can be accessed by anybody, it's risible to think it was faked.

Also agreed. Tho' one potential counter-factor is this oddly-behaved video (some of the comments are interesting):

But there were six moon landings in total, plus three other manned missions that went into orbit around the moon. That's 24 people who were there in person. If they faked it once with Apollo 11, why on Earth would they fake Apollos 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 & 17 as well?

indeed.

 

[dholliday]

I might put more stock in your thinking if you didn't quote articles to back up your examples of chaos theory in the real world that have absolutely nothing to do with it aside from having the phrase in the title.

That was my whole point. Here's my post on that again, emphasis on colloquially. It's just become a term often used by laymen, who may not be aware of the maths-factor behind it.

furthermore, chaos theory is often used by writers colloquially to describe certain events or individual philosophies. here's 3 Trumpian examples:

Opinion | Trump’s Chaos Theory

His combative style may force a truce between the country’s ‘two nations.’ But not any time soon.

www.wsj.com

The Trump chaos theory for how to beat impeachment

Analysis: While Democrats need a clear message for voters, the president just needs to give Republican lawmakers options to keep them from jumping ship.

www.nbcnews.com

Trump’s Chaos Theory of Government

In the weeks since Donald Trump's inauguration as President of the United States, it has become clear that he intends to roll back the progressive-egalitarian agenda that is commonly associated with "political correctness" to the starting block – not just in the United States, but globally.

www.nacion.com

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

My understanding is the sheer cost & effort was so massive, that the only reward making it worthwhile was winning the race to be first. From an exploration, settling or mineral viewpoint, Mars appears to be more worthwhile.

China have landed on the moon, albeit only with craft. The Russians landed on Venus in the 70's (also only craft).



Agreed.





Also agreed. Tho' one potential counter-factor is this oddly-behaved video (some of the comments are interesting):





indeed.

That video goes for 1 hour and 23 minutes, which part are you referring to as odd? I'm at work so can't sit through the whole thing.

If you're referring to the answers given by the crew, only Mike Collins was considered warm, friendly, a great communicator etc. Armstrong was notoriously shy and only interested in the mission, he hated all the media circus and celebrity that went with the job. Aldrin was regarded by many of his peers as a very strange man indeed, arrogant, pushy, selfish were all things he was accused of being.

Also the Soviets were the first nation to land a spacecraft on the moon in 1966 with Luna 9 (unmanned obviously).

 

[ste d' indica]

yes, and a seemingly random system can be anything: like say the pandemic. either the pandemic is meticulously planned, or it is beholden to Chaos Theory (which we in hindsight will see patterns due to different factor causing different outcomes...like mutations). I don't think we can use Chaos Theory to accurately predict the outcome of the pandemic beforehand. We can only identify the 'chaos' thereafter.

i think you'd struggle with those articles i linked, or any other form of using the term outside of the dry mathematical boundaries. But like it or not, the term is part of our culture, and people like to use it as an angle to better understand real-world happenings. The concept has, you could say, transcended it own mathematical boundaries. if i've used it wrong, then i happily admit it, if i understand how i've used it wrong.

No I don't like it, that's the point. I've studied the subject in some depth and I don't like seeing it casually tossed around by people who haven't.

i think you'd struggle with those articles i linked

And you're accusing me of arrogance?

 

[ste d' indica]

That was my whole point. Here's my post on that again, emphasis on colloquially. It's just become a term often used by laymen, who may not be aware of the maths-factor behind it.

See above.

 

[dholliday]

Let me guess, our resident YouTube academic is trying to create arguments using things he’s watched online against people who actually know what they’re talking about again. Best stick him on ignore.

a little warped, considering @ste d' indica was the one who came into the thread claiming i don't understand something without explaining why, which under a definition of "creating argument" would fit quite nicely.

but we're not even arguing, we're in a debate, however clumsy.

I'm from Liverpool, now living in Australia, so I doubt my definition is any different to yours. And I should add that I'm not just talking about this thread, I'm talking about many of your posts across different topics.

righto. you may disengage at any time.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

a little warped, considering @ste d' indica was the one who came into the thread claiming i don't understand something without explaining why, which under a definition of "creating argument" would fit quite nicely.

but we're not even arguing, we're in a debate, however clumsy.


righto. you may disengage at any time.

Yup, that's exactly what I was referring to lol