David Moyes - Taking a knife to a gunfight at West Ham, Part 2

[Daz1878]

I dont know the details, but their match day takings for 60000 ish crowds is no where near what say Spurs or Arsenal get from similar gates.

Discounted season tickets, tons of cheaps available, free ones lobbed into tourist packages offered by travel agents, not much corporate.

True, but won't those two North London clubs still have sizeable repayments on the debts incurred for their stadiums? The Hammers' nominal rent must be much less than such figures?

 

[Ballly]

He also has them (not) conceding like a team challenging for Europe, which is why they're not down in the relegation places. When the goal is to stay up and draws get that done, it's no surprise that managers go for that approach. Pulis and Allardyce made careers out of it.

Palace's concession record makes shelling them yesterday look all the more impressive.

Agreed. Yet know a few Palace fans that are considering quitting due to zero excitement and escalating prices hoping they get someone more enterprising in. There will always be about 6-8 clubs every year that have to walk the fine line between survival and entertaining the fans but in all honesty Hodgson has made a career out of the "if they dont score, we dont lose' style of football that is fine if all the club wants is top tier football but like Moyes and the two guys you mentioned, you just cant say they're top managers. Roy proved this when he was across the park and had no idea how to set up his team that rarely was an under dog.

 

[cpfc1905]

Agreed. Yet know a few Palace fans that are considering quitting due to zero excitement and escalating prices hoping they get someone more enterprising in. There will always be about 6-8 clubs every year that have to walk the fine line between survival and entertaining the fans but in all honesty Hodgson has made a career out of the "if they dont score, we dont lose' style of football that is fine if all the club wants is top tier football but like Moyes and the two guys you mentioned, you just cant say they're top managers. Roy proved this when he was across the park and had no idea how to set up his team that rarely was an under dog.

Hodgson's football is just baffling tbh. In his first season we played great stuff, the kind of football we got De Boer for but ultimately he's a coward and can't resist serving up slow, negative dross

 

[Ballly]

Hodgson's football is just baffling tbh. In his first season we played great stuff, the kind of football we got De Boer for but ultimately he's a coward and can't resist serving up slow, negative dross

Pretty typical of his career really. The most boring match I ever witnessed among many live was his Switzerland team taking on Columbia in the `1994 World Cup in America. Decent result for sure considering the south American team were ranked number 2 in the world at the time but I cant say for sure if Switzerland ever crossed the half way line (other than their kick off of course lol)

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Agreed. Yet know a few Palace fans that are considering quitting due to zero excitement and escalating prices hoping they get someone more enterprising in. There will always be about 6-8 clubs every year that have to walk the fine line between survival and entertaining the fans but in all honesty Hodgson has made a career out of the "if they dont score, we dont lose' style of football that is fine if all the club wants is top tier football but like Moyes and the two guys you mentioned, you just cant say they're top managers. Roy proved this when he was across the park and had no idea how to set up his team that rarely was an under dog.

That is way too harsh on Hodgson. Look at his work at Inter Milan and Fulham. Getting the latter team into the Europa League final was a wonderful effort that proved his tactical acumen. Similarly he laid the foundations at inter for their future success. The owner actually said this, and he has no vested interests.

Roy is a very good manager who has proven pedigree indeed leagues at home and abroad, and as an international manager. Liverpool was a hiding to nothing when he came in, though I suppose he felt he could not turn such a big job down.

 

[Ballly]

That is way too harsh on Hodgson. Look at his work at Inter Milan and Fulham. Getting the latter team into the Europa League final was a wonderful effort that proved his tactical acumen. Similarly he laid the foundations at inter for their future success. The owner actually said this, and he has no vested interests.

Roy is a very good manager who has proven pedigree indeed leagues at home and abroad, and as an international manager. Liverpool was a hiding to nothing when he came in, though I suppose he felt he could not turn such a big job down.

Harsh on Hodgson? Lets look those amazing foundations he lay at Inter. They were so good that he only lasted two seasons and in the mean time had one of the worlds all time best fullbacks Roberto Carlos claiming:
"Hodgson's stay at Inter destroyed me. He played me in midfield and I had to consider that there was a chance that this would ruin my career in the national side. It's not that I did not have a good relationship with Hodgson. It is just that Hodgson doesn't know much about football. I have little respect for his coaching methods".

But I will give you the fact that the Inter President held Hodgson in high regard for stabilizing the ship when they were in the relegation zone. That's my point. He can set up a team to survive (like Pulis, Allardyce, Moyes etc) but when asked to thrive and take a team to the next level or highest tier of their league he doesn't have the tactical nous to step out of his defensive shell and do it. He had LFC in the relegation zone FFS. A good mid/lower level manager and never has or ever will be anything more. Nice man though most who meet him say!

 

[artetas_biggest_fan]

Hodgson's football is just baffling tbh. In his first season we played great stuff, the kind of football we got De Boer for but ultimately he's a coward and can't resist serving up slow, negative dross

Coward is a good word, same applies to Moyes.

For these managers a draw away from home is a great result. They set the team up with the prime aim of not to lose. They also place excessive focus on the opposition in the build up to games. The Fergie appointed imposter Moyes going into Old Trafford and making the United players feel small by talking up the dangers of Coutinho, Hazard and co.

These type of managers bring nothing to the game. The cowardly, safety first football makes it very difficult for players to develop under them. Plenty of graft, but little else.

 

[artetas_biggest_fan]

He can set up a team to survive (like Pulis, Allardyce, Moyes etc) but when asked to thrive and take a team to the next level or highest tier of their league he doesn't have the tactical nous to step out of his defensive shell and do it. He had LFC in the relegation zone FFS. A good mid/lower level manager and never has or ever will be anything more. Nice man though most who meet him say!

100%.

How he got the Inter job is utterly baffling, although Inter were a basket case in the 90s. Ronaldo made a mammoth error leaving Barca for that circus. They never seemed to have a coherent strategy with a mishmash of world class attacking talent just thrown together (Ronaldo, Vieri, R.Baggio, Recoba, Djorkaeff, Zamorano). Also bought a young Robbie Keane. They spent loads but were devoid of a plan. The Liverpool job he got under false pretences in being appointed by the two shysters Hicks and Gillett. Getting the England job just showed how far the England managers job had fallen in terms of prestige.

Tbf to Hodge, his CV is more impressive than Moyes. The Swiss job was decent, Fulham too he did well. He’s not a terrible manager, merely a competent one.

 

[EFCPaul]

100%.

How he got the Inter job is utterly baffling, although Inter were a basket case in the 90s. Ronaldo made a mammoth error leaving Barca for that circus. They never seemed to have a coherent strategy with a mishmash of world class attacking talent just thrown together (Ronaldo, Vieri, R.Baggio, Recoba, Djorkaeff, Zamorano). Also bought a young Robbie Keane. They spent loads but were devoid of a plan. The Liverpool job he got under false pretences in being appointed by the two shysters Hicks and Gillett. Getting the England job just showed how far the England managers job had fallen in terms of prestige.

Tbf to Hodge, his CV is more impressive than Moyes. The Swiss job was decent, Fulham too he did well. He’s not a terrible manager, merely a competent one.

Moyes is a laughing stock nowadays but his accomplishments in getting us top 6 regularly on no money is better than anything Hodgson has ever done. His reign at United wasn't as bad as Hodgson's at Liverpool either.

Hodgson has done alright for himself overall in his managerial career but in his three biggest jobs (Inter, Liverpool, England) he was a failed massively. And that Iceland defeat is probably worse than any game Moyes lost with us, even Wigan in the QF.

 

[Minimeister]

100%.

How he got the Inter job is utterly baffling, although Inter were a basket case in the 90s. Ronaldo made a mammoth error leaving Barca for that circus. They never seemed to have a coherent strategy with a mishmash of world class attacking talent just thrown together (Ronaldo, Vieri, R.Baggio, Recoba, Djorkaeff, Zamorano). Also bought a young Robbie Keane. They spent loads but were devoid of a plan. The Liverpool job he got under false pretences in being appointed by the two shysters Hicks and Gillett. Getting the England job just showed how far the England managers job had fallen in terms of prestige.

Tbf to Hodge, his CV is more impressive than Moyes. The Swiss job was decent, Fulham too he did well. He’s not a terrible manager, merely a competent one.

He did a better job than Benitez.

 

[Yarrgh]

Can we all agree that Moyes and Hodgson are gash. Comparing them is like wondering if it's better to get sars or coronavirus. It's all bad.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Harsh on Hodgson? Lets look those amazing foundations he lay at Inter. They were so good that he only lasted two seasons and in the mean time had one of the worlds all time best fullbacks Roberto Carlos claiming:
"Hodgson's stay at Inter destroyed me. He played me in midfield and I had to consider that there was a chance that this would ruin my career in the national side. It's not that I did not have a good relationship with Hodgson. It is just that Hodgson doesn't know much about football. I have little respect for his coaching methods".

But I will give you the fact that the Inter President held Hodgson in high regard for stabilizing the ship when they were in the relegation zone. That's my point. He can set up a team to survive (like Pulis, Allardyce, Moyes etc) but when asked to thrive and take a team to the next level or highest tier of their league he doesn't have the tactical nous to step out of his defensive shell and do it. He had LFC in the relegation zone FFS. A good mid/lower level manager and never has or ever will be anything more. Nice man though most who meet him say!

You mischaracterise his spell at Inter - he did very well there and it was his choice to leave to go to Blackburn.


“After a terrible start to the season that saw the team bottom of Serie A, Hodgson was brought in and guided the club to seventh place in the 1995–96 season, qualifying for the UEFA Cup. In an interview with FourFourTwo in a May 2005 issue, Roberto Carlos stated that he had difficulties with Hodgson throughout the 1995–96 season, and that his decision to leave Inter at the end of the season was largely due to Hodgson's refusal to field him in his preferred position, as a left-back, rather than in a more advanced position on the wing.[26]

“The 1996–97 season saw Hodgson leave Inter after guiding them to a third-place finish”

Finishing third is Hardly the barely scraping by that you suggest! And Serie A was the best league in the world at that point.

 

[Lelouch]

getting west ham relegated will be a better achievement than getting to the champions league places with Marcus Bent

 

[Ballly]

"You mischaracterise his spell at Inter - he did very well there and it was his choice to leave to go to Blackburn."

Fair enough, if you call 7th and 3rd a success with the likes of Zanetti leading the troops but didn't he have Blackburn rooted at the bottom of the table after just 15 months? Let's agree to disagree on this and get back to your boy Moyes!

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

"You mischaracterise his spell at Inter - he did very well there and it was his choice to leave to go to Blackburn."

Fair enough, if you call 7th and 3rd a success with the likes of Zanetti leading the troops but didn't he have Blackburn rooted at the bottom of the table after just 15 months? Let's agree to disagree on this and get back to your boy Moyes!

Yeah right, the Champions Juventus where miles better, with the likes of Del Piero and Vieri up front, Peruzzi in goal and the little known Zinedine Zidane in midfield. They were also managed by Lippi at the time.

Ancelotti’s Parma were second and were hardly slouches themselves, with Crespo, Chiesa, Zola, Dino Baggio, Buffon, Thuram - they were stacked!