2023/24 Dele

[COYBL25]

Spare us the poor victim baloney. That doesn’t explain why he sits around on his arse everyday drawing massive wages and making no effort to get fit or try to improve. Your assessment of childhood trauma would be a lot more convincing if he hadn’t performed at Spurs before succumbing to the lifestyle. He still had the same issues then but it didn’t seem to affect him.

Bed.

 

[Bkk Andy]

There are some proper whoppers in this thread.

 

[Double Negative]

Can we cancel the loan once the transfer window opens next week?

 

[HowardsWay]

The poster I was responding to wasn’t asking questions. Was making incorrect and and really ignorant statements.

In response to the questions you had been asking, what has someone’s salary got to do with overcoming childhood trauma?

It certainly makes their life much easier to deal with when they have large sums of money deposited in their bank account. Being able to afford treatment being one of them. There's lots of people who have suffered as children who don't have the opportunities or means that a wealthy footballer has. Overcoming childhood trauma is very difficult and is a very individual thing, no question. All I'm saying is that Dele was given an opportunity in his life to recapture his career and so far he has played 13 times for us in practically two years. Makes me wonder how much of his lifestyle / childhood was known to us before we signed him because if you are looking at purely footballing terms, his ROI has been zero.

 

[Donegal blue]

Mental health doesn't distinguish between rich and poor.

 

[HowardsWay]

Mental health doesn't distinguish between rich and poor.

Not at the outset but being rich or poor does in terms of the treatment one can be given.

 

[Marius57]

It certainly makes their life much easier to deal with when they have large sums of money deposited in their bank account. Being able to afford treatment being one of them. There's lots of people who have suffered as children who don't have the opportunities or means that a wealthy footballer has. Overcoming childhood trauma is very difficult and is a very individual thing, no question. All I'm saying is that Dele was given an opportunity in his life to recapture his career and so far he has played 13 times for us in practically two years. Makes me wonder how much of his lifestyle / childhood was known to us before we signed him because if you are looking at purely footballing terms, his ROI has been zero.

Recovery from trauma isn’t a straight line. I doubt we knew his childhood trauma, and it’s irrelevant if we did or didn’t, as things could have surfaced a day after we signed him, or may never have done.

Money means he can pay for services yes but that won’t necessarily fix things, but wealth also adds expectation and responsibility whether they want it or not. And kids growing up wanting to be footballers, won’t understand the expectation on them and the way society is towards them until it’s too late, which is why we are seeing more and more players having issues with mental health. And for someone with childhood trauma, who has been through care as well, their social and emotional development will be considerably behind their peers, (there is research suggesting that their social/emotional development etc catches up to their peers by around age 30 though but it’s significantly delayed).

 

[roydo]

Not at the outset but being rich or poor does in terms of the treatment one can be given.

Nonsense. #Matthew Perry. No matter how much money one has, you either respond to help, or you dont.

 

[allen]

Oh right... so questions can't be asked because it's a touchy subject.

I wish the bloke all the happiness in the world but as an Everton fan, I want to see results on the pitch which is what he was employed for.

The objection isn’t to questions being asked, it’s to assumptions being made.

This is what the guy said:

Spare us the poor victim baloney. That doesn’t explain why he sits around on his arse everyday drawing massive wages and making no effort to get fit or try to improve.

Where’s the question there? I see only baseless assumption, coloured by a preconceived and uninformed notion of who Dele is.

 

[HowardsWay]

Recovery from trauma isn’t a straight line. I doubt we knew his childhood trauma, and it’s irrelevant if we did or didn’t, as things could have surfaced a day after we signed him, or may never have done.

Money means he can pay for services yes but that won’t necessarily fix things, but wealth also adds expectation and responsibility whether they want it or not. And kids growing up wanting to be footballers, won’t understand the expectation on them and the way society is towards them until it’s too late, which is why we are seeing more and more players having issues with mental health. And for someone with childhood trauma, who has been through care as well, their social and emotional development will be considerably behind their peers, (there is research suggesting that their social/emotional development etc catches up to their peers by around age 30 though but it’s significantly delayed).

Some fair points such as trauma isn't a straight line and I never said it was. I'd argue the point about being irrelevant though.

As a football club, we should be looking to sign players who can improve our team and who don't come with any baggage that can affect that. I know that sounds harsh to say but the reality is that this is a multi-million/billion pound business and there is little room for sentiment. Sorry if that offends.

The reality is for some folks like me, we should never have signed him... a) because his best days were behind him and b) because he has played 13 times in two years and mostly as a sub.

I'd also argue with your comment that "being wealthy brings expectation and responsibility" to some extent. Dele signed for us knowing his own background and feelings. He'd had a bad period in his career and possibly thought he could play his way out of it. On the other hand, he may have just thought it was another pay check. None of us will know. As a footballer there is responsibility and expectation and I'd suggest that Dele failed us in the period until he did that interview. Outside of football, there are plenty of wealthy individuals who shun responsibility and expectation.

 

[HowardsWay]

Nonsense. #Matthew Perry. No matter how much money one has, you either respond to help, or you dont.

And what if you can't afford to get help?

 

[Titus Bramble]

Spare us the poor victim baloney. That doesn’t explain why he sits around on his arse everyday drawing massive wages and making no effort to get fit or try to improve. Your assessment of childhood trauma would be a lot more convincing if he hadn’t performed at Spurs before succumbing to the lifestyle. He still had the same issues then but it didn’t seem to affect him.

Knobhead

 

[Caolam]

Spare us the poor victim baloney. That doesn’t explain why he sits around on his arse everyday drawing massive wages and making no effort to get fit or try to improve. Your assessment of childhood trauma would be a lot more convincing if he hadn’t performed at Spurs before succumbing to the lifestyle. He still had the same issues then but it didn’t seem to affect him.

Sorry, I didn’t know you knew him well enough to know he is sitting around every day, I just assumed that given Sean Dyche’s history he would not tolerate a player swinging the lead. As you appear to be a better football manager than Sean Dyche, to be medically qualified plus having access to Dele Ali’s medical records defer to your greater knowledge. You are some man for one man.

 

[COYBL25]

This thread makes the Patterson thread look normal.

Takes some doing that.

 

[HowardsWay]

Where’s the question there? I see only baseless assumption, coloured by a preconceived and uninformed notion of who Dele is.

The poster in question also stated that he performed for Tottenham and although he didn't exactly say it, was, IMO, implying that he had the same deep rooted issues there that didn't seem to affect him in the way it has at Everton.

Perhaps we just bring things out in people?

But, I think it's fair enough to question his mindset earlier in his career to later and then why Everton took the gamble to sign him?

Frankly, I think we signed him because he was a big name at one time and it would appease the majority of fans. I also understand that mental illness can be deep rooted and take decades to come to the surface.