Bryan+
Player Valuation: £35m
What’s up, mate?
Pleased you are feeling better and also that your wife has made progress. Just keep doing what you are doing - kindness, love and support are gentle but fiercely powerful. X
I'm so sorry to hear this.So.
I was out and unreachable yesterday as I'd arranged to watch the boxing, it's the first evening out this year. Catch up with some pals and what not.
Next door was in a bad way around half four yesterday afternoon, ambulance didn't come (Saturday night is a bad time to be fair), his next neighbour in an emergency took him into hospital with him losing a lot of sicked up blood. His son and daughter in law had made it over in time. He died quite quickly this morning just before 2am. I'm glad he wasn't on his own.
Was a good man and a good neighbour. And I'm very sorry to lose a good friend. I hope he is reunited with his wife somewhere, I know he missed her terribly. rip.
Ah that's brilliant news mate, over the moon for you.I'm feeling really happy right now. The Mrs had a massive breakthrough today. She managed to call me on the pay-as-you-go phone I got her when she went in. It's the first time she's even entertained using any kind of phone since this all started. We had a lovely little chat about how she was, what time I'm coming in tomorrow, what she needs bringing in, etc. It was so wonderful to just get a phone call and hear her voice unexpectedly like that, and she's talking about texting on it too now. It's taken an awful lot for her to do that because she had built up such a massive phobia. I'm so proud of her for overcoming this latest hurdle. The nurses and docs helping her deserve medals for the work they do. I honestly couldn't have imagined any of this not so long ago. We've still got a long road to go yet but she's improving a little bit more and more each day.
BullensRoad
Player Valuation: £35m
I'm feeling really happy right now. The Mrs had a massive breakthrough today. She managed to call me on the pay-as-you-go phone I got her when she went in. It's the first time she's even entertained using any kind of phone since this all started. We had a lovely little chat about how she was, what time I'm coming in tomorrow, what she needs bringing in, etc. It was so wonderful to just get a phone call and hear her voice unexpectedly like that, and she's talking about texting on it too now. It's taken an awful lot for her to do that because she had built up such a massive phobia. I'm so proud of her for overcoming this latest hurdle. The nurses and docs helping her deserve medals for the work they do. I honestly couldn't have imagined any of this not so long ago. We've still got a long road to go yet but she's improving a little bit more and more each day.
Amazing mate. Made my day that.
Harry if you need to talk about ANYTHING buddy drop me a message. The folks on here are wonderfully supportive and as a non Evertonian, this web site is something to be extremely proud of. The way people offer themselves is very moving and frankly I don't believe the people on here realise how supportive they are. I don't accept the "I'm not an expert " etc premise from some people. We all have a worth, a value and just saying to someone your there for someone can be a massive difference to someone who believes they aren't worth worrying about. Keep coming on here Harry for chats. If your rock bottom, there are options, so please don't think you are alone. Sorround yourself with people who love you, with friends or family. The Samaratins are wonderfully caring people, the Police can link you up with Mental Health Professionals because you may need protecting from yourself. There is help there. Go to A / E and tell them how you feel, speak to a neighbour, a shopkeeper, I mean it Harry, if it gets too bad for you fella, please try and let someone know. If you cant speak or talk , write it down. Something simple like " I feel like killing myself, can you help please " and hand it to someone. There is always someone who wants to help you, unconditionally. Drop me a message, in all confidence and I will help you as much as I can. God bless.
datblygu
Player Valuation: £5m
Me and my partner are looking for couples therapy/relationship counselling - preferably online. We've had bad experiences in the past with therapists, but want to persevere because we know there's good ones out there. I don't know where else to get advice, so thought this might be as good a place as any to ask.
MrD
Player Valuation: £10m
Wondering if any of you guys can help me regarding my 8 year old daughter?
I did post about this a while back and the helpful comments were awesome. the TL;DR version of what i'm about to write is,
8 year old very distracted in school, doesn't do much work, she can be disruptive, nothing bad just bossiness, The Ex has a horrific attitude towards me and never stops blaming me or having a dig. i'm living with that stress feeling that is trying to burst out of my chest 24/7
Ok, right, my daughter is such a loving and caring kid but i'm really worried about what her teacher says to us. as above, she barely does any work even though she's really cleaver. she is always bossing other kids around and being loud. she is always writing me notes and drawing pictures about how much she loves me, used to be 10+ times a day now it's maybe 3 or 4 a week.
She is very emotional especially when we tell her the teacher has told us she's naughty in school. she bursts into tears within a second of hearing it.
I've kind of exhausted my patience/coping levels with it. not because i don't care, i really do and as with every parent i want her to do well in school but it's not working out as i want it to.
My ex, her mum is a bitch. everything is my fault even though everyone tells me what a good job i'm doing and how calm i am with my daughter but, the ex is a bit of a narcissist and nothing she does could be wrong so it has to be me. every time it's mentioned (her behaviour) nothing i say matters. the ex just says i'm wrong and that cranks up the stress more and more. my health is suffering as the second the ex messages me my body just reacts with anxiety.
I know i have PTSD from her because she always made my life a misery and 1000 times moreso since we split. She's killing me and the burden of being to blame for everything (and i mean EVERYTHING) constantly and at fault for everything regarding our daughter is really really harming me and therefore my relationship with our kid.
I'm scared to be around her at times because she is struggling in school etc, i worry that i've ruined her life and her mental state and the fact that i get moaned at for everything even if i've done nothing wrong.
I'm really trying to find a way to help my daughter, the ex want her on ADHD medication and to see doctors etc which is fine i suppose. i'm just worried that my daughter will start to be treated differently or people will think she's messed up. i love her so much but i'm scared that my love for her is likely to stop me accepting she may have issues deeper than just being 8.
The Ex, i cannot stand her but i'm stuck with her and she has no problems saying awful stuff to anyone. i'm in a situation where i cannot say anything or share my opinion on our kid.
Sounds daft to some i know, but i was raised by a mother who treated my like scum, i was a good kid but just being alive lead to me being punished, my exes over the years end up doing that same so i know it's a pattern of mine.
but the whole situation is pushing me away from my kid. i lost and scared but mostly worried for my daughter. maybe i just don't understand ADHD, maybe my mind has made me think that it means a kid is "mental" (forgive the word, just couldn't put it any other way) and my issues with how i reject anything that i consider imperfect will make me stop loving my little girl.
i'm just stuck in a corner and i cannot do anything to help things. feel free to tell me to get a grip and grow up. but my head burying skills is off the charts. i'm a master at it.
I did post about this a while back and the helpful comments were awesome. the TL;DR version of what i'm about to write is,
8 year old very distracted in school, doesn't do much work, she can be disruptive, nothing bad just bossiness, The Ex has a horrific attitude towards me and never stops blaming me or having a dig. i'm living with that stress feeling that is trying to burst out of my chest 24/7
Ok, right, my daughter is such a loving and caring kid but i'm really worried about what her teacher says to us. as above, she barely does any work even though she's really cleaver. she is always bossing other kids around and being loud. she is always writing me notes and drawing pictures about how much she loves me, used to be 10+ times a day now it's maybe 3 or 4 a week.
She is very emotional especially when we tell her the teacher has told us she's naughty in school. she bursts into tears within a second of hearing it.
I've kind of exhausted my patience/coping levels with it. not because i don't care, i really do and as with every parent i want her to do well in school but it's not working out as i want it to.
My ex, her mum is a bitch. everything is my fault even though everyone tells me what a good job i'm doing and how calm i am with my daughter but, the ex is a bit of a narcissist and nothing she does could be wrong so it has to be me. every time it's mentioned (her behaviour) nothing i say matters. the ex just says i'm wrong and that cranks up the stress more and more. my health is suffering as the second the ex messages me my body just reacts with anxiety.
I know i have PTSD from her because she always made my life a misery and 1000 times moreso since we split. She's killing me and the burden of being to blame for everything (and i mean EVERYTHING) constantly and at fault for everything regarding our daughter is really really harming me and therefore my relationship with our kid.
I'm scared to be around her at times because she is struggling in school etc, i worry that i've ruined her life and her mental state and the fact that i get moaned at for everything even if i've done nothing wrong.
I'm really trying to find a way to help my daughter, the ex want her on ADHD medication and to see doctors etc which is fine i suppose. i'm just worried that my daughter will start to be treated differently or people will think she's messed up. i love her so much but i'm scared that my love for her is likely to stop me accepting she may have issues deeper than just being 8.
The Ex, i cannot stand her but i'm stuck with her and she has no problems saying awful stuff to anyone. i'm in a situation where i cannot say anything or share my opinion on our kid.
Sounds daft to some i know, but i was raised by a mother who treated my like scum, i was a good kid but just being alive lead to me being punished, my exes over the years end up doing that same so i know it's a pattern of mine.
but the whole situation is pushing me away from my kid. i lost and scared but mostly worried for my daughter. maybe i just don't understand ADHD, maybe my mind has made me think that it means a kid is "mental" (forgive the word, just couldn't put it any other way) and my issues with how i reject anything that i consider imperfect will make me stop loving my little girl.
i'm just stuck in a corner and i cannot do anything to help things. feel free to tell me to get a grip and grow up. but my head burying skills is off the charts. i'm a master at it.
You’ve got a lot going on there mate.
There’s a lad who’s a professional who may be able to help you unravel some of it @Spotty
If it helps in anyway at all, my lad had a one to one all the way through primary and junior school due to his disability.
We became good friends with his last one to one and are still in touch with her.
From what she tells me, is that in her school every single class now has at least one kid with diagnosed ADHD or who is autistic and as such has a one to one.
There’s no stigma involved with the schools anymore and she should have a one to one by the sounds of it ?
Have a look at something called the Pupil Premium.
This is what the school applies for to pay for the one to one.( has this been mentioned to you ? )
The earlier you can get support for her the better it’ll be for her going forward and in the long run
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you are doing amazing to have had that past mate and wanting/doing the best for your child.
her mum deffo sounds a selfish possessive lonley woman. people who always blame others for failures is as its easy for
them to do
your a father you aren’t no failure mate
you gotta and you will start trying to
change your feelings/thought
process, your ex has banged the drum
to you that long you think she’s right and she’s not.
if your girl is/or gets diagnosed with ADHD then you take it as it comes and then follow the best plan to help her.
your fragile mate you’ve been mentally bullied.
your better than your ex mate
i hope it’s helped for you to talk x
Bryan+
Player Valuation: £35m
Alright, mate, reading through what you're dealing with, it's clear you've got a proper handful. Your 8-year-old's struggles at school, coupled with the constant battle with your ex, that's enough to knock anyone sideways. You're very obviously trying your best, and it shows, but you're also carrying a lot of worry, especially with the ADHD stuff floating around. You're not alone in feeling overwhelmed, not by a looooong shot.
Mate, you're clearly a a boss dad, and that shines through. Don't beat yourself up too much. It sounds like you're doing your best to navigate a really
situation. Take a breather when you can, and remember, reaching out for help is a sign of strength, not weakness. You'll get through this I promise, mate and remember to look after your self cos stress is a silent killer. If you are from Liverpool I recommend googling Andy’s man clubs, they are boss. Good luck, mate.
Rita_Poon
Player Valuation: £90m
I'm going to highlight a couple of things, to then try to cast a bit of light on them after, I've put this offering here first so I can explain what I'm doing and that this isn't an instance of getting kicked in the balls.
No one likes being a door matt, and it seems you've had your share of domineering axe grinding women in your time. Kids learn from what they see and hear, they are also good at picking up on an atmosphere. If your former partner is so brash with criticism of you, there is every chance it has been heard first hand by your daughter. So we can connect bossiness here.
I've emboldened what I have in your post, and it all leads the same negative way, your former partner is negative about and towards you, and to an extent you have return thoughts feelings and probably words about her.
Between you it is unfair to drag your daughter through this swamp of bitterness, it is affecting her somewhere. Have either of you moved on or is the relationship fairly recently ended?
You say she blames you for everything - my flippant reaction to that was going to be "Oh, hello dear, what's my fault today then". But that's probably antagonistic. Have you considered mediated contact, through one or both of either of your parents?
If the stress and strain of dealing with her is making you ill, then it's time to take a step back from the obvious cause. The PTSD thing probably needs pro help to start learning techniques and behaviours that allow you to cope better, carrying on will only make things worse. There is no hoping for the best, there is only change.
Your daughter is 8, she's seen the breakdown of her family unit and could well be lost in the emotional fallout of what has happened and the bitterness that hasn't backed off. Prolonged exposure to this negativity isn't doing her any good. She needs time to adjust, and be reassured that she is loved and cared for (the notes thing). If she doesn't get on in school, keep the work back and do it with her at home. You have to be consistent here with this. I have no idea who gets what time and visitation and school pick ups and all that.
An older wiser less flustered head/mind like that of a grandparent to your daughter might make all the difference if they can mediate at all.
Primary school isn't all that important, yes it's great if jnr is outperforming Shakespeare for their age but we have to live in the real world. Small children are developing personalities and behaviours and testing the rules and limits.
This part about the worry of you making yourself stop loving your daughter is a bit peculiar, if you are fraught and tired, and at a loss for words, catastrophising isn't doing much good. She's Daddies little girl, and always will be.
Limit exposure to your toxic ex, rein in your judgements about her at the very least in front of your daughter, and try not to despair, maybe some CBT and some doctor input for you might help find some calm, boosting little un's confidence and focus on the school work might pay dividends, it's about finding a path that works for you all, it's not about flooding and becoming over awed and feeling powerless.
So far as the teachers opinion goes, that's not the end of the world either, some kids take a while to get into gear with school expectations.
Took longer to dissect that than I thought. Oh for the skill of having the right words at the right times. One day for me.
I'm not a parent, (thank whichever deity you can, I've got em all covered!) but I can recall being a kid and have had some professional help reflecting on certain chapters from younger days so might have some pertinent words.
No one likes being a door matt, and it seems you've had your share of domineering axe grinding women in your time. Kids learn from what they see and hear, they are also good at picking up on an atmosphere. If your former partner is so brash with criticism of you, there is every chance it has been heard first hand by your daughter. So we can connect bossiness here.
I've emboldened what I have in your post, and it all leads the same negative way, your former partner is negative about and towards you, and to an extent you have return thoughts feelings and probably words about her.
Between you it is unfair to drag your daughter through this swamp of bitterness, it is affecting her somewhere. Have either of you moved on or is the relationship fairly recently ended?
You say she blames you for everything - my flippant reaction to that was going to be "Oh, hello dear, what's my fault today then". But that's probably antagonistic. Have you considered mediated contact, through one or both of either of your parents?
If the stress and strain of dealing with her is making you ill, then it's time to take a step back from the obvious cause. The PTSD thing probably needs pro help to start learning techniques and behaviours that allow you to cope better, carrying on will only make things worse. There is no hoping for the best, there is only change.
Your daughter is 8, she's seen the breakdown of her family unit and could well be lost in the emotional fallout of what has happened and the bitterness that hasn't backed off. Prolonged exposure to this negativity isn't doing her any good. She needs time to adjust, and be reassured that she is loved and cared for (the notes thing). If she doesn't get on in school, keep the work back and do it with her at home. You have to be consistent here with this. I have no idea who gets what time and visitation and school pick ups and all that.
An older wiser less flustered head/mind like that of a grandparent to your daughter might make all the difference if they can mediate at all.
Primary school isn't all that important, yes it's great if jnr is outperforming Shakespeare for their age but we have to live in the real world. Small children are developing personalities and behaviours and testing the rules and limits.
This part about the worry of you making yourself stop loving your daughter is a bit peculiar, if you are fraught and tired, and at a loss for words, catastrophising isn't doing much good. She's Daddies little girl, and always will be.
Limit exposure to your toxic ex, rein in your judgements about her at the very least in front of your daughter, and try not to despair, maybe some CBT and some doctor input for you might help find some calm, boosting little un's confidence and focus on the school work might pay dividends, it's about finding a path that works for you all, it's not about flooding and becoming over awed and feeling powerless.
So far as the teachers opinion goes, that's not the end of the world either, some kids take a while to get into gear with school expectations.
Took longer to dissect that than I thought. Oh for the skill of having the right words at the right times. One day for me.
Great post xI'm going to highlight a couple of things, to then try to cast a bit of light on them after, I've put this offering here first so I can explain what I'm doing and that this isn't an instance of getting kicked in the balls.
I'm not a parent, (thank whichever deity you can, I've got em all covered!) but I can recall being a kid and have had some professional help reflecting on certain chapters from younger days so might have some pertinent words.
No one likes being a door matt, and it seems you've had your share of domineering axe grinding women in your time. Kids learn from what they see and hear, they are also good at picking up on an atmosphere. If your former partner is so brash with criticism of you, there is every chance it has been heard first hand by your daughter. So we can connect bossiness here.
I've emboldened what I have in your post, and it all leads the same negative way, your former partner is negative about and towards you, and to an extent you have return thoughts feelings and probably words about her.
Between you it is unfair to drag your daughter through this swamp of bitterness, it is affecting her somewhere. Have either of you moved on or is the relationship fairly recently ended?
You say she blames you for everything - my flippant reaction to that was going to be "Oh, hello dear, what's my fault today then". But that's probably antagonistic. Have you considered mediated contact, through one or both of either of your parents?
If the stress and strain of dealing with her is making you ill, then it's time to take a step back from the obvious cause. The PTSD thing probably needs pro help to start learning techniques and behaviours that allow you to cope better, carrying on will only make things worse. There is no hoping for the best, there is only change.
Your daughter is 8, she's seen the breakdown of her family unit and could well be lost in the emotional fallout of what has happened and the bitterness that hasn't backed off. Prolonged exposure to this negativity isn't doing her any good. She needs time to adjust, and be reassured that she is loved and cared for (the notes thing). If she doesn't get on in school, keep the work back and do it with her at home. You have to be consistent here with this. I have no idea who gets what time and visitation and school pick ups and all that.
An older wiser less flustered head/mind like that of a grandparent to your daughter might make all the difference if they can mediate at all.
Primary school isn't all that important, yes it's great if jnr is outperforming Shakespeare for their age but we have to live in the real world. Small children are developing personalities and behaviours and testing the rules and limits.
This part about the worry of you making yourself stop loving your daughter is a bit peculiar, if you are fraught and tired, and at a loss for words, catastrophising isn't doing much good. She's Daddies little girl, and always will be.
Limit exposure to your toxic ex, rein in your judgements about her at the very least in front of your daughter, and try not to despair, maybe some CBT and some doctor input for you might help find some calm, boosting little un's confidence and focus on the school work might pay dividends, it's about finding a path that works for you all, it's not about flooding and becoming over awed and feeling powerless.
So far as the teachers opinion goes, that's not the end of the world either, some kids take a while to get into gear with school expectations.
Took longer to dissect that than I thought. Oh for the skill of having the right words at the right times. One day for me.
MrD
Player Valuation: £10m
Thanks for the reply. Nothing like one to ones or anything has been mentioned. The school just asks us to come in every few months to discuss our girls behaviour. they kinda act like it's nothing to do with them. but yeah, support if needed will need to be started. The ADHD narrative is all my Exes though. she is just decided that googling symptoms and diagnosis is 100% accurate.You’ve got a lot going on there mate.
There’s a lad who’s a professional who may be able to help you unravel some of it @Spotty
If it helps in anyway at all, my lad had a one to one all the way through primary and junior school due to his disability.
We became good friends with his last one to one and are still in touch with her.
From what she tells me, is that in her school every single class now has at least one kid with diagnosed ADHD or who is autistic and as such has a one to one.
There’s no stigma involved with the schools anymore and she should have a one to one by the sounds of it ?
Have a look at something called the Pupil Premium.
This is what the school applies for to pay for the one to one.( has this been mentioned to you ? )
The earlier you can get support for her the better it’ll be for her going forward and in the long run
and once she's decided that then nothing will sway her. her level of arrogance is off the chart.
Thanks for the kind words matty. they do mean a lot. her mum is an awful person. a proper bitch faced bitch and having a kid to use as a stick to beat me with is right up her street sadly.
thank you
Thanks for the kind words Bry. I think the reason the Ex has a lot of weight behind her bitchiness is that when we first spilt up she decided to ruin me and was very quick to give me the old "i'll get a solicitor and take you to court to stop you seeing your kid" thing. and that ruined me.Alright, mate, reading through what you're dealing with, it's clear you've got a proper handful. Your 8-year-old's struggles at school, coupled with the constant battle with your ex, that's enough to knock anyone sideways. You're very obviously trying your best, and it shows, but you're also carrying a lot of worry, especially with the ADHD stuff floating around. You're not alone in feeling overwhelmed, not by a looooong shot.
Mate, you're clearly a a boss dad, and that shines through. Don't beat yourself up too much. It sounds like you're doing your best to navigate a really
If you are from Liverpool I recommend googling Andy’s man clubs, they are boss. Good luck, mate.
I want to be a dad so much and i try so hard to be a good one but the fear of her being taken off me means i tend to just let the ex walk all over me.
Thanks Rita, we split up almost 6 years ago but she just has that attitude and personality of punishment and power trips, i'm not the only one she does it too but i'm the only one who can't stand up to it in case she takes me daughter off me.I'm going to highlight a couple of things, to then try to cast a bit of light on them after, I've put this offering here first so I can explain what I'm doing and that this isn't an instance of getting kicked in the balls.
I'm not a parent, (thank whichever deity you can, I've got em all covered!) but I can recall being a kid and have had some professional help reflecting on certain chapters from younger days so might have some pertinent words.
No one likes being a door matt, and it seems you've had your share of domineering axe grinding women in your time. Kids learn from what they see and hear, they are also good at picking up on an atmosphere. If your former partner is so brash with criticism of you, there is every chance it has been heard first hand by your daughter. So we can connect bossiness here.
I've emboldened what I have in your post, and it all leads the same negative way, your former partner is negative about and towards you, and to an extent you have return thoughts feelings and probably words about her.
Between you it is unfair to drag your daughter through this swamp of bitterness, it is affecting her somewhere. Have either of you moved on or is the relationship fairly recently ended?
You say she blames you for everything - my flippant reaction to that was going to be "Oh, hello dear, what's my fault today then". But that's probably antagonistic. Have you considered mediated contact, through one or both of either of your parents?
If the stress and strain of dealing with her is making you ill, then it's time to take a step back from the obvious cause. The PTSD thing probably needs pro help to start learning techniques and behaviours that allow you to cope better, carrying on will only make things worse. There is no hoping for the best, there is only change.
Your daughter is 8, she's seen the breakdown of her family unit and could well be lost in the emotional fallout of what has happened and the bitterness that hasn't backed off. Prolonged exposure to this negativity isn't doing her any good. She needs time to adjust, and be reassured that she is loved and cared for (the notes thing). If she doesn't get on in school, keep the work back and do it with her at home. You have to be consistent here with this. I have no idea who gets what time and visitation and school pick ups and all that.
An older wiser less flustered head/mind like that of a grandparent to your daughter might make all the difference if they can mediate at all.
Primary school isn't all that important, yes it's great if jnr is outperforming Shakespeare for their age but we have to live in the real world. Small children are developing personalities and behaviours and testing the rules and limits.
This part about the worry of you making yourself stop loving your daughter is a bit peculiar, if you are fraught and tired, and at a loss for words, catastrophising isn't doing much good. She's Daddies little girl, and always will be.
Limit exposure to your toxic ex, rein in your judgements about her at the very least in front of your daughter, and try not to despair, maybe some CBT and some doctor input for you might help find some calm, boosting little un's confidence and focus on the school work might pay dividends, it's about finding a path that works for you all, it's not about flooding and becoming over awed and feeling powerless.
So far as the teachers opinion goes, that's not the end of the world either, some kids take a while to get into gear with school expectations.
Took longer to dissect that than I thought. Oh for the skill of having the right words at the right times. One day for me.
I've tried over the years to keep my daughter away from any arguing or that, but sometimes it's hard, but i do shield her from most of it.
I didn't mean stop loving my girl, i meant being around her and all the crap that i get from the ex makes me weary.
She moans about everything, if our daughter has had a busy day at school and yawns, it's my fault. her bedroom night light is either too bright or not bright enough. if a car drives past then it's too loud, or if not, it's too quiet. it just never ends.
I have a huge aversion to doing things for myself. no idea why, but i almost never go the doctors if i'm sick. i avoid everything and i just suffer with it all alone because over the years i feel like no one cares so i just keep it all in.
I know i could seek professional help but i know my inner me will fight against it. i've just got no motivation.
I will ALWAYS love and adore my daughter, we love each other and we each deserve each other in our lives........i just wish sometimes that the ex wasn't in the picture. but almost all of my frustration is caused by her and i'm stuck with her.
Thanks everyone.
If you can get a documented diagnosis for your daughter it will change everything, as the school legally have to recognise the diagnosis and put steps in place to support her.
Sadly, as with everything today, the waiting times for getting a diagnosis are horrendous and as much as it pains me to say it, if you can afford to get it done privately, I’d go down that route - needs to be someone that the education authority will recognise though.
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