Drenthe ..sacked ?

[zed]

I work in a restaurant, and if i was in the kitchen taking the pi55 continually despite being told not to then regardless of whether there were 5 or 25 tables on the books for the night the manager would be perfectly justified, and expected, to deal with me appropriately.

i`m a commis chef mate and tbh its a bit of a stretch to compare a footy manager to a head chef. moyes wouldnt last 2 minutes in the Dorchester, he couldnt run i tight enough ship and anyway he`d send out egg and chips instead of sea bass in vierge sauce or something

 

[froggyted]

Oh just to quote LCAB -

Why you're questioning Moyes's ego when someone has chosen to let himself and us down. It was Drenthe's timing, how can you not get that? Nothing Moyes did backfired, Drenthe was acting like his was indespensable and it backfired, that wasn't Moyes decision. He just treated him exactly like if it was anyone else.

I don't think we're going to agree on this. I've put my argument in several posts, including the one you're addressing: what i'm questioning is Moyes' timing.

I can understand both sides of this argument but for me it comes down to who retaining control and respect in the locker room.

In any workplace if you have an employee who continually breaks rules despite being given chance after chance then there comes a point when the foot has to be put down, regardless of the circumstances or effect it may have on the rest of the workforce.

I work in a restaurant, and if i was in the kitchen taking the pi55 continually despite being told not to then regardless of whether there were 5 or 25 tables on the books for the night the manager would be perfectly justified, and expected, to deal with me appropriately.

Yes Drenthe being left out of the squad left us lacking that explosiveness off the bench, but one has to look at the bigger picture. If Drenthe had been allowed to feature on Saturday after having breached club rules AGAIN, then it hands all the power to him, as he knows that the club is more dependent on him than he is on them. Of course they could have dealt with him after the match took place, but then you need to look at the other players in the locker room, how would they feel at this lad being let off the chain again and again ?

Moyes was stuck between a rock and a hard place here, but for me he took the difficult and correct decision to show him the door.

I agree re the bit in bold, again it's just the timing. Re setting a bad example to other players, how would it if Moyes had sent him packing after the match? No player is going to want to 'get one up' on Moyes if they're going to pay the ultimate price later.

If Everton announce interest in a player (or let it get leaked before it's final) it's "why is our club so bad at keeping secrets? why can't we keep things under wraps until they are ready to sign." Then when things are kept under wraps all of a sudden it's because they only just thought of buying that person at the last minute out of a desperation gamble. They may have turned their attention to Fellaini at a late date because other deals fell through or the money was finally freed up but I doubt they were buying a player sight unseen.

Wasn't he 15 million euros ... not the oft reported pounds?

Regardless ... we have no money so we don't want to pay wages over the summer. We have no money so we're waiting to sell players and then we know our budget. We have no money so we're waiting for the new money to come in. We have no money so we're negotiating like crazy trying to beat teams down and down and down until we get the possible price. It's desperation of sorts but not a desperation born of Moyes "not learning from his mistakes" but Moyes being handcuffed by our precarious financial position. Nobody at the club, even BK, is unaware that it's not the optimum way to go about your business but they have no other choice.

Will we do our deals early this year? I doubt it. Maybe Pienaar if that's going to happen. Not because Moyes hasn't learned (he knows it's horrible) but because we can't buy players without money and the money takes a while to come in.

As for Drenthe, pretty much the one thing we have going for us is squad harmony. Is talent more important? See Man United v. Man City and their relative league position.

Ok, i accept i'm being a bit harsh here about Moyes and that the Board and lack of funds is a major factor, and yes, of course Moyes will have looked at the likes of Fellaini before buying, it's a well-known fact that he was on Moyes' radar for months, but he was still bought at the last minute and was not our first-choice. Therefore, a certain element of gamble was involved in whether he would work out and, moreover, we probably paid over the odds by leaving it until the last minute (so actually costing the Club more). Furthermore, we only sealed the deal with minutes to spare and may have lost him altogether. I would suggest that Drenthe, amongst others, was a panic-buy because we hadn't sealed deals elsewhere, and wouldn't doubt for one minute that the Club were aware of Drenthe's potential shortcomings off the pitch. Yes, a lot of that is down to the way the Board as a whole do business and the tight financial circumstances the Club are in; no, this isn't all Moyes' fault, but he should be demanding that he has the funds to do deals earlier and gets the players he wants (before they go elsewhere and he has to buy 2nd, 3rd etc. choice players) but the cosy relationship between him and BK means that neither side probably challenges the other.

 

[davek]

IMO the minute it bacame clear that Jones was to be their goalkeeper, Drenthe should have been the first name on the teamsheet.

He fires them in from all angles and would have given Jones a proper test.

Sometimes a manager has to forget about "discipline" to achieve a certain aim.

Rafael had no hesitation in playing Bellamy at Barcelona a few days after hw ****ted one of hys own teammates with a golf club.

And Bellamy scored in that match.

Now that we know the "family problem" story was a lie, it is my opinion that Drenthe should have been playing from the getgo.

Correct. Get the job done.

He talks about walking into a gunfight with a knife...and then throws the knife away.

Cant fix stupid, i suppose.

 

[Pomp]

He talks about walking into a gunfight with a knife...and then throws the knife away.

.

Quality. Moyes Out.

 

[tommye]

so apart from speculation does anybody know EXACTLY what went on? No? Well this is just going to go round and round and round in big circles until we do. Argue away lads. I've had enough of reading them same guess work over and over again.

 

[Goat]

You know its bad when Rafael is held up as a shining light.

 

[Get_Jo_On]

I don't think we're going to agree on this. I've put my argument in several posts, including this: what i'm questioning is Moyes' timing.

Your argument is totally flawed by the fact you're questioning Moyes where it is Drenthe's timing which is in question. Why did he throw it all away just before a massive game?

All this "he should have played then been sacked off", no, he knew what would happen and ignored it. He let us down, he threw his own name off the team sheet.

I just find it totally ridiculous that people are complaining, do you not have principles? The goat hit the nail on the head, our motto is "Nothing but the best" not "Win at all costs".

 

[pfim]

Can't believe people are siding with Drenthe in this mess. I mean I can, I understand the reality of this board and Moyes, but my lord, enough is enough.

You can't measure how his erratic behavior affects the squad, especially before a semifinal at Wembley. Showing up late to training that week is the height of arrogance and selfishness. He has no one to blame but himself and no one should be pointing fingers anywhere but in Drenthe's direction. He's 25 years old, not some kid who needs to be coddled. He was loaned out on the last year of his deal and this was his last shot at playing at a big club in a big league imo, and he blew it.

He is a great talent, but entirely replaceable. He's not Ronaldo, Messi or Rooney. He's not even Pienaar.

 

[Saliba]

so apart from speculation does anybody know EXACTLY what went on? No? Well this is just going to go round and round and round in big circles until we do. Argue away lads. I've had enough of reading them same guess work over and over again.

This. It's all that's been happening. Dammit, I just want actual facts rather than reports. Not denying Drenthe has **** attitude, but I just want to know what happened 100% before i have a whinge.

 

[little curly alan ball]

You know its bad when Rafael is held up as a shining light.

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Ladies & Gentlemen ..Post Of The Day , brought to you by , the Sweet Shop nearest the Oyster Catcher ..

I Than' Yo' ....

 

[froggyted]

Your argument is totally flawed by the fact you're questioning Moyes where it is Drenthe's timing which is in question. Why did he throw it all away just before a massive game?

All this "he should have played then been sacked off", no, he knew what would happen and ignored it. He let us down, he threw his own name off the team sheet.

I just find it totally ridiculous that people are complaining, do you not have principles? The goat hit the nail on the head, our motto is "Nothing but the best" not "Win at all costs".

Yes, i have principles. My principle would have been to sack, or get rid, after the game. But if principle results in losing a crucial game that could have won us a trophy and brought more revenue into the Club that would have bettered the Club then i'm not with you. You think he was dispensable, so did Moyes. Look at the full time result again. Principles are important, but have already been stretched anyway, as Davek has already indicated, by tolerating his behaviour prior to the incident.

As i say, we aren't going to agree on this one. Everyone on here has set their stalls out. It's history now. I'm not going to continue arguing this in circles either, i've spent too much time on this thread. It's history. Regardless of who's right and wrong, if Drenthe has gone we have to move on. Maybe we'll have another crack at a trophy next season; maybe in ten years time, who knows.....

 

[Brennan]

i`m a commis chef mate and tbh its a bit of a stretch to compare a footy manager to a head chef. moyes wouldnt last 2 minutes in the Dorchester, he couldnt run i tight enough ship and anyway he`d send out egg and chips instead of sea bass in vierge sauce or something

Haha, fair enough.

You get what i mean though ? Discipline has to be consistent, regardless of what's on offer if you let it slide.

 

[broudie]

I've read this thread with interest, and overall feel that it can only be Drenthe who is to blame for his actions and exclusion from the squad. Of course I have also been a bit puzzled by the timing, like Davek and TX Bill have - but I'm willing to accept that Moyes had no other choice - and that might be all we ever find out about it.

When things like this happen, I try to think what I would do - and all I can think of is this. If I had a naughty child, who was getting in trouble at school alot - I'd be telling them they're grounded, no pocket money etc. If that didn't work, I would be having to tell them that our summer holiday is going to be cancelled. Now I've worked bloody hard all year and am really looking forward to my holiday - so I dont really want to cancel it. When it comes down to it - if the kid's behaviour hasn't changed - I have to cancel the holiday right at the last minute don't I. If I don't, what does he learn, and what do my other kids learn? The timing's rubbish - but if I cancel the holiday 3 months before, there's really nothing for the child to aim for - there's no incentive for him to improve.

For all we know - Moyes might have desperately wanted to play Drenthe, and was prepared to give him every chance to prove himself - as you would with your own kid - just looking for some shred of redemption, right up until the last possible minute - but he didn't get any, so his hands were tied. Yes, overall the team's creativity may have suffered, but if he tells Drenthe you're defo out of the semi, what hope does he have of getting his behaviour to improve in the meantime. We don't know exactly the timing of events - but DM with knowing his creative options are limited, he might well had no choice but to give RR up till the night before, or whatever.

On balance, it's unfair to compare DM to SAF - the latter has had a wealth of luxury players over the years, DM hasn't - and he knows it, which is probably why he was trying to give Drenthe till the last possible minute - but when it came down to it, he just couldn't behave enough for the biggest game of the season. I'll agree that Moyes does seem to have a record for not being able to get on with the 'flair' players too much (I don't class Arteta as 'flair', and Pienaar seems to be the exception), and maybe he does need to chill with them a bit - but if it's a choice between discipline and no discipline I know which side I'm on. SAF fell out with Scholes years back, but Scholes changed his attitude and became one of the finest players the league has ever seen - SAF's discipline is probably going to earn Utd a 20th title. I think the main difference between us and them - in this context - is their flair players know it's a privilege to play for that team, and to do that, you take the conditions that go with the shirt.

We used to have that at EFC - players knowing what it meant - some still do, but they're all multi-millionaires and some are mercenary to boot. If you want a winning team the first thing you HAVE to have is discipline. You HAVE to have players who respect the shirt, and all it stands for. If RR respected the shirt, he'd have been first on the training pitch and last to leave every day, he'd have been home in bed at night getting rest so he can perform out on the pitch every single time he played - and let's face it, he didn't do that. I'm not suggesting he has no life, but he did not have a contract with Everton - if he respected us, and wanted a contract, he would have done anything and everything in his power to get one. If you were going for a job, would you not prepare yourself the best you can to make sure you get it - and then do your best throughout your probation so they keep you on??

I've had, and will continue to have doubts about DM - in the main for me his problem is he's too concerned about losing, to the point where he forgets about winning - in particular away to the top 6 sides - I do not have a problem with him setting out a solid base of rules that our squad should (and I'm sure 99% do) stick to.

 

[Abraders]

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=htt...p-everton-royston-drenthe-3085711&h=YAQFxrT5w

Wants to join Liverpool? Good thing or bad thing..

 

[froggyted]

I've read this thread with interest, and overall feel that it can only be Drenthe who is to blame for his actions and exclusion from the squad. Of course I have also been a bit puzzled by the timing, like Davek and TX Bill have - but I'm willing to accept that Moyes had no other choice - and that might be all we ever find out about it.

When things like this happen, I try to think what I would do - and all I can think of is this. If I had a naughty child, who was getting in trouble at school alot - I'd be telling them they're grounded, no pocket money etc. If that didn't work, I would be having to tell them that our summer holiday is going to be cancelled. Now I've worked bloody hard all year and am really looking forward to my holiday - so I dont really want to cancel it. When it comes down to it - if the kid's behaviour hasn't changed - I have to cancel the holiday right at the last minute don't I. If I don't, what does he learn, and what do my other kids learn? The timing's rubbish - but if I cancel the holiday 3 months before, there's really nothing for the child to aim for - there's no incentive for him to improve.

For all we know - Moyes might have desperately wanted to play Drenthe, and was prepared to give him every chance to prove himself - as you would with your own kid - just looking for some shred of redemption, right up until the last possible minute - but he didn't get any, so his hands were tied. Yes, overall the team's creativity may have suffered, but if he tells Drenthe you're defo out of the semi, what hope does he have of getting his behaviour to improve in the meantime. We don't know exactly the timing of events - but DM with knowing his creative options are limited, he might well had no choice but to give RR up till the night before, or whatever.

On balance, it's unfair to compare DM to SAF - the latter has had a wealth of luxury players over the years, DM hasn't - and he knows it, which is probably why he was trying to give Drenthe till the last possible minute - but when it came down to it, he just couldn't behave enough for the biggest game of the season. I'll agree that Moyes does seem to have a record for not being able to get on with the 'flair' players too much (I don't class Arteta as 'flair', and Pienaar seems to be the exception), and maybe he does need to chill with them a bit - but if it's a choice between discipline and no discipline I know which side I'm on. SAF fell out with Scholes years back, but Scholes changed his attitude and became one of the finest players the league has ever seen - SAF's discipline is probably going to earn Utd a 20th title. I think the main difference between us and them - in this context - is their flair players know it's a privilege to play for that team, and to do that, you take the conditions that go with the shirt.

We used to have that at EFC - players knowing what it meant - some still do, but they're all multi-millionaires and some are mercenary to boot. If you want a winning team the first thing you HAVE to have is discipline. You HAVE to have players who respect the shirt, and all it stands for. If RR respected the shirt, he'd have been first on the training pitch and last to leave every day, he'd have been home in bed at night getting rest so he can perform out on the pitch every single time he played - and let's face it, he didn't do that. I'm not suggesting he has no life, but he did not have a contract with Everton - if he respected us, and wanted a contract, he would have done anything and everything in his power to get one. If you were going for a job, would you not prepare yourself the best you can to make sure you get it - and then do your best throughout your probation so they keep you on??

I've had, and will continue to have doubts about DM - in the main for me his problem is he's too concerned about losing, to the point where he forgets about winning - in particular away to the top 6 sides - I do not have a problem with him setting out a solid base of rules that our squad should (and I'm sure 99% do) stick to.

Great post, a lot of good points, and i agree with most of them.