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Duncan Ferguson - The Coach

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davek said:
"He was a catalyst for some of our biggest moments in a dire period of our history."

We won the cup in 95 without him. The only big moment. The catalysts for that were players like Amokachi and Dave Watson and Parkinson and Limpar.

Ferguson was a player with a reputation based not on football but what he could do with his fists.

In short: regardless of whether you were starved of 80s type success, a judgment could easily be made about what his net effect was for Everton, and it wasn't a good one. A fist pumping, shirt waving fake at the end of the day. And he's conned a generation who had nothing much to cheer about for the last 20 years by getting their complicity in keeping him on as a coach.
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Well, I knew if someone would take issue with this it would most likely be you. But haters gotta hate I guess.

Like I said in my post, the performance and goal in the Derby was a catalyst for all that followed. That's not to diminish the efforts and contributions of the other players and the other scenarios (Amokachi vs Spurs for instance).

But in the same way that many people believe a Kevin Brock back pass was a turning point in the 83/84 season, winning that Derby was a key moment in 94/95, and Ferguson was pivotal in that.

Unequivocally.

As for other moments, we may not have won any other trophies in that period, much the same way other players never won trophies over the years, but he still gave us good moments and great memories, be it goals, games, performances, and yes, even the odd red card. It might not have been sensible, but he stood for something at a time when we were low, and he showed that he cared.

There are plenty of players who remain heroes for some, for what they meant to people at a specific time. If we are basing it solely on what they won, then you are saying that nobody born after 1995 can have an Everton hero. No-one who looked up to any of the countless other great players or characters who people have loved in periods where we won nothing.

Dave Hickson, Bob Latchford, Martin Dobson, Mick Lyons, Duncan Mckenzie, Peter Beardsley, Andrei Kanchelskis, Gary Speed, Kevin Campbell, Don Hutchison, Wayne Rooney, Tim Cahill, Mikel Arteta, Yakubu, Lukaku, etc. You are dictating that people do not have the right to say any of them were heroes?

You may take issue with some of the other things associated with Duncan, as I already pointed out, but don't tell other people he isn't or wasn't a hero, because during that time, he was.

And all of that, despite what his hater spin machine tries to tell you, is based SOLELY on what he did on the pitch for Everton.
 

Kever10 said:
Well, I knew if someone would take issue with this it would most likely be you. But haters gotta hate I guess.

Like I said in my post, the performance and goal in the Derby was a catalyst for all that followed. That's not to diminish the efforts and contributions of the other players and the other scenarios (Amokachi vs Spurs for instance).

But in the same way that many people believe a Kevin Brock back pass was a turning point in the 83/84 season, winning that Derby was a key moment in 94/95, and Ferguson was pivotal in that.

Unequivocally.

As for other moments, we may not have won any other trophies in that period, much the same way other players never won trophies over the years, but he still gave us good moments and great memories, be it goals, games, performances, and yes, even the odd red card. It might not have been sensible, but he stood for something at a time when we were low, and he showed that he cared.

There are plenty of players who remain heroes for some, for what they meant to people at a specific time. If we are basing it solely on what they won, then you are saying that nobody born after 1995 can have an Everton hero. No-one who looked up to any of the countless other great players or characters who people have loved in periods where we won nothing.

Dave Hickson, Bob Latchford, Martin Dobson, Mick Lyons, Duncan Mckenzie, Peter Beardsley, Andrei Kanchelskis, Gary Speed, Kevin Campbell, Don Hutchison, Wayne Rooney, Tim Cahill, Mikel Arteta, Yakubu, Lukaku, etc. You are dictating that people do not have the right to say any of them were heroes?

You may take issue with some of the other things associated with Duncan, as I already pointed out, but don't tell other people he isn't or wasn't a hero, because during that time, he was.

And all of that, despite what his hater spin machine tries to tell you, is based SOLELY on what he did on the pitch for Everton.
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well said mate.....i was born as we wrapped up the title in 87 and only have the 95 cup win to cheer about, Duncan is an everton hero of mine

Dave, just give it a rest mate you are utterly utterly tedious
 
Lee Smith said:
I love the way you go against the majority opinion on literally every single discussion related to Everton, be it players, managers or stadium. You're so damn hip and edgy lol
Click to expand...
I don’t think calling out Ferguson for being a parasite and poor example to others is a minority opinion. Far from it.
 

Kever10 said:
Well, I knew if someone would take issue with this it would most likely be you. But haters gotta hate I guess.

Like I said in my post, the performance and goal in the Derby was a catalyst for all that followed. That's not to diminish the efforts and contributions of the other players and the other scenarios (Amokachi vs Spurs for instance).

But in the same way that many people believe a Kevin Brock back pass was a turning point in the 83/84 season, winning that Derby was a key moment in 94/95, and Ferguson was pivotal in that.

Unequivocally.

As for other moments, we may not have won any other trophies in that period, much the same way other players never won trophies over the years, but he still gave us good moments and great memories, be it goals, games, performances, and yes, even the odd red card. It might not have been sensible, but he stood for something at a time when we were low, and he showed that he cared.

There are plenty of players who remain heroes for some, for what they meant to people at a specific time. If we are basing it solely on what they won, then you are saying that nobody born after 1995 can have an Everton hero. No-one who looked up to any of the countless other great players or characters who people have loved in periods where we won nothing.

Dave Hickson, Bob Latchford, Martin Dobson, Mick Lyons, Duncan Mckenzie, Peter Beardsley, Andrei Kanchelskis, Gary Speed, Kevin Campbell, Don Hutchison, Wayne Rooney, Tim Cahill, Mikel Arteta, Yakubu, Lukaku, etc. You are dictating that people do not have the right to say any of them were heroes?

You may take issue with some of the other things associated with Duncan, as I already pointed out, but don't tell other people he isn't or wasn't a hero, because during that time, he was.

And all of that, despite what his hater spin machine tries to tell you, is based SOLELY on what he did on the pitch for Everton.
Click to expand...
Well said
 
davek said:
"He was a catalyst for some of our biggest moments in a dire period of our history."

We won the cup in 95 without him. The only big moment. The catalysts for that were players like Amokachi and Dave Watson and Parkinson and Limpar.

Ferguson was a player with a reputation based not on football but what he could do with his fists.

In short: regardless of whether you were starved of 80s type success, a judgment could easily be made about what his net effect was for Everton, and it wasn't a good one. A fist pumping, shirt waving fake at the end of the day. And he's conned a generation who had nothing much to cheer about for the last 20 years by getting their complicity in keeping him on as a coach.
Click to expand...

I think thats a little bit harsh Dave.

He had an excellent games in the quarter final that season against Newcastle. I think that is why Ferguson is loved by many, it's because in big games, Liverpool, Manchester United, Newcastle he generally performed at his best. There are criticisms to be levelled at Ferguson, namely why didn't he produce his best form more often, or against weaker opponents but in big games he often scored. I'd also agree, that to a certain degree the living for winning a derby in the 90's wasn't a wholly positive trait of the club but I can see why people liked it.

He had fantastic ability as well. Neville Southall said he could have been the best in the world. A mixture of lack of application and then injury problems probably prevented it.

However the cult around him and his fighting sort of misses the point of some of the performances he put in. In my lifetime I've never seen a Liverpool team are scared of playing a single opponent as they were of him.
 

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