2022/23 Dwight McNeil

[BigDuncTributeBand]

A good tip for any player is always start out terrible so that slightly less terrible is viewed as good.

He's more productive because he's on set plays. He should have always been on set plays and he can stay on set plays regardless of his position. He is still a poor player in the final third during open play and this is his primary job.

Well it certainly worked for your pal Iwobi so maybe there is something to it.

Agree he should always have been on set pieces.

As for him being a poor player in the final third, he’s not a wide forward that could play in a 433 - was the wrong player for the formation and skill set Lampard needed, bad signing.

Playing left midfield in a midfield 5 he’s fine, it suits him. It’s the old Kevin Kilbane role, more all round role/requirement not just focussed on the final third. Got to protect the fullback, stay with and track runners, get back into shape out of possession etc.

Suits the basic style we’re playing for the moment. If we are to improve, may well have to be replaced for someone with a bit more guile, like when we signed Pienaar to upgrade Kilbane. He’ll do for the moment - square peg in a square hole and when the team is full of poor players, you need as many square pegs in square holes as possible.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Alright Roberto lad.

Set pieces are a massive part of football and only clowns ignore it.

That's really not what I'm saying.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Well it certainly worked for your pal Iwobi so maybe there is something to it.

Agree he should always have been on set pieces.

As for him being a poor player in the final third, he’s not a wide forward that could play in a 433 - was the wrong player for the formation and skill set Lampard needed, bad signing.

Playing left midfield in a midfield 5 he’s fine, it suits him. It’s the old Kevin Kilbane role, more all round role/requirement not just focussed on the final third. Got to protect the fullback, stay with and track runners, get back into shape out of possession etc.

Suits the basic style we’re playing for the moment. If we are to improve, may well have to be replaced for someone with a bit more guile, like when we signed Pienaar to upgrade Kilbane. He’ll do for the moment - square peg in a square hole and when the team is full of poor players, you need as many square pegs in square holes as possible.

Sounds like a LB to me. Kilbane ended up there at some point right?

 

[Saint Domingo]

This is a really sad place to be. You're not wrong at all. But having an attacker viewed as playing well because he's getting crosses blocked for corners is a sad state of affairs.

I actually agree with you. It would be great to have three quick two footed creative goalscoring forwards who can all interchange positions but it’s not where we are at the moment with the options in the squad.

Dyche has to get the best out of what he has and at the moment that’s McNeill on the left getting crosses in and winning corners.

 

[MikeH72]

Sounds like a LB to me. Kilbane ended up there at some point right?

Only ever as emergency cover.

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

So the criticism has gone from he runs the ball out of play to he actually wins us corners

 

[Paul Rideout]

So the criticism has gone from he runs the ball out of play to he actually wins us corners

I don't know how winning corners, with our tall midfield and Centrebacks so they are able to join the attack, is a bad thing.

He's ok. he's not prime Ronaldinho, but he's not exactly alexandersson.

 

[Egil Olsen]

This is about risk. If you analyze the goals we have conceded, you will see that an awful lot of goals have come from losing the ball - especially centrally. This was really Lampard's big problem, losing the ball centrally and poor balance.

Dyche therefore wants to play more directly and along the outer corridor. Of course, this results in fewer big scoring chances over time, but at the same time it results in less risk of conceding goals. If you lose the ball along the touchline, you have more time to regain your balance. Longer for the opponent to the goal. Another advantage is that there are usually fewer players in the outer corridor, which gives the attacking team more space.

At the same time, Dyche wants crosses into the box, which makes this logical, but he needs some players inside the box. Now that DCL is out, it becomes extra important that Onana and AD come running into the box. But the whole team cannot run into the box, then you get a very poor balance. The general rule is that you need 5 players behind the ball.

So with us, you will more often see that it is the fullbacks who are left to create balance. If, for example, the fullbacks were responsible for keeping the width in attack, this would more often come at the expense of our ability to get Onana and AD in the box. If you want wings on the inside, it changes the whole dynamic. Then Onana and AD will have to balance much more.

 

[TheBigIguana]

In the long run maybe (although I can’t actually see it working to be honest) but not now. Personally I think he’s just a very limited player and so is better on the left where his game can be simplified and he can just concentrate on doing a steady solid job. If we were moving him I’d be more inclined to see if he could play centrally to be honest, I’ve seen very little to suggest he can play effectively on the right.

EDIT - I’m confused now because I assumed we were talking about McNeil and I’ve just seen this is the Iwobi thread so just ignore me.

We were talking about Iwobi and then we ended up on McNeil because Iwobi can't move because then McNeil has to move. It's all confusing but you ultimately replied about the right guy.

I don't think the job I'm envisioning on the right is all that different from if he were central. We just have other players who are actually reasonably capable centrally and our only other on the right is Iwobi is an utter wasteland when he's over there. I'd want him coming inside to take up positions and Patterson would ideally be able to hold the width and combine.

I just don't like the idea of having a guy play simple and solid because ultimately he's just playing pretty poorly. I'd really like for us to attempt to get our attackers to play less crap on the whole. I know we've sort of adopted this idea that it isn't possible and while I'm under no illusions that the players are bottom level on the whole I still believe there's actually more there if we had someone who might have the ability to unlock it.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I don't really agree at all.

I watched Burnley a fair bit in previous years when he broke through and he was very consistently decent for them on the left for around 18 months, then really dropped off a cliff in Dyche's final season.

Burnley fans - I know a lot - said the same as you - he should play on the right etc. But I don't think when he did he was particularly great. Yes, he stepped up a bit of form because Cornet was definitely a better option on the left and Burnley had a bit of rejuvenation but all of his best moments of his career, bar that one good goal against us in 2021, have come from the left wing, even when it's been him drifting in field to find space and it coming to him naturally on his left, like he did the other day for our goal.

Yes, he could turn into that but right now we simply don't have time and he's offering more from the left than he has done for us from the right, where he has been genuinely awful. All of his better performances and moments for Everton, which is what matters, have come on the left.

Iwobi, as this is the Iwobi thread, can offer from both right and left, as we actually do see week in week out. He's still creating chances, he's played right side pretty much all season bar that anchor role in the first few games (which is actually when he was brilliant, as he saw loads of the ball) and a few games he played LCM. Yes, he's better on the left but our other two wingers in Gray and McNeil are definitely better there and just ineffective on the right, whereas Iwobi is still finding ways to affect games from the right while remaining relatively defensively solid.

Hopefully when we have Dom back (big if like) and a bit more attacking confidence we could see some rotation in those roles but right now it's about simplifying things.

It's not that I'm saying McNeil definitely can't go on to play right side, it's just right now he'd need more time there to get used to it and has basically one trick in his arsenal and it's fairly easy to stop by doubling up as he has zero pace or ability to use his other foot. In a more attacking team with better FBs then it could open up space down that side for him but it's not there atm, so it has to be basics and eeking out what he is good at, which by and large comes from the left.

I guess the last thing I have to ask on McNeil is do you still rate him on the left if the shots stop going in? Because he's not taking enough shots to think he'll even keep scoring at this rather underwhelming rate. Once that goes away I don't feel like anything tangible is really left. The crossing just isn't that good.

 

[BlueToff]

I guess the last thing I have to ask on McNeil is do you still rate him on the left if the shots stop going in? Because he's not taking enough shots to think he'll even keep scoring at this rather underwhelming rate. Once that goes away I don't feel like anything tangible is really left. The crossing just isn't that good.

He's been far better in every game under Dyche and every game he's played on the left so yes, even if 'the shots stop going in' (which they hadn't been up until the other day).

He's just better on the left. It's evident.

 

[jazzy]

I've said from day one he should only play wide left in midfield ( perhaps a left wing back at a push).
He is a poor man's Sheedy.

 

[Dixie1sixty]

He needs to play on the other side of the field so he can go left and it isn't so easy to just crowd him out

No he doesn't.

 

[Dixie1sixty]

There’s no denying he was horrendous playing under lampard… don’t know where this guy has come from

They were all horrendous

 

[coleman=quality]

I’ve slated him more times than I can count. I’ve usually been right in doing so too

But his form in the last 6 or so matches had been consistently better than average and I can at least see some kind of player there

Keep forgetting he’s so young but hopefully we’ll see him flesh out into a decent player over the coming months.

Yes I thought he would be ok when we first got him then performances was poor went off him but last few games his work rate has been good and he’s getting involved, and as you say still young so hopefully can keep improving. Not sure if long term he’s the answer but could be a good squad player.