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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 2

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catcherintherye said:
I started formulating the thoughts on watching it again. It just didn't seem normal to me. He's not massively drunk having a rant or whatever.

From my time in education you'd often find that children would give a lot of their intention and thoughts away in passages like that. His mindset in terms of outlook and the ID/Ego mix has more in common with a child than the majority of adults so it's interesting to view it in that way.

The long and short of it is he loves himself so much he can't fathom a world where people do not love him for everything he does. When he senses that's not happening he gets extremely defensive and starts being rude. If he was 7 it would be quite easy to move him past that phase (it's in fact a normal part of growing up) but for a grown man it will be very difficult.

Take some solace from the fact that even if they were to win the European cup, and the multitude of insults that will come, he will still not be happy. People will never love him as much as he thinks they ought too. He;s drinking from the never ending cup.
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This is the truest thing I’ve ever read and actually speaks for 98% of their fanbase. Thank you for putting all of my thoughts into an eloquent post.
 
toffeejack said:
being welsh i am a bit ITK about welsh football and as soon as hennessey did that nazi salute, i heard the RS were interested in buying him. Ever since he's stated he has no knowledge about nazi salutes and wishes to 'cleanse' himself so to speak by gaining knowledge about the situation, they've dropped their interest. It's unbelievable, they want players to follow this far right ideology and anyone who wishes to learn more, to form their own opinion is basically being brushed aside as not worthy to join the cult.
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I am not sure that's anything other than coincidence I think!

My point is more about the social base as opposed to the ideology. I don't think Kopites are busy reading Mein Kampf. I just think they are for the most part a layer of losers who've never been to the match desperately seeking some greater meaning in the world. The same factors replicating on a societal level generally push people towards fascism.
 
mikeh72 said:
This is the truest thing I’ve ever read and actually speaks for 98% of their fanbase. Thank you for putting all of my thoughts into an eloquent post.
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Thanks mate. You get trained to spot narcissists and they are best avoided. It's difficult for us as a club because we have to share a city with many of their fans. The central cultivation of Kopitism is essentially a scale of narcissism.
 

I don’t understand half the posts here

Not only because English is not native to me and I am not a local but also I don’t really have that kind of anger / rivalry with LFC? I hate them too but purely in football terms and occasionally their fans. Is it really just a local thing ? And is it that bad ?
 
Saint Domingo said:
It’s obviously still a huge trophy, but I think seeing Spurs ajax and a terrible Barcelona in the semi final line up has diminished it even for some kopites. No doubt they’ll bang on about it for years and years but there can’t really be a claim that it’s the top level of competition any more. Chumps like Porto and Roma are getting to the latter stages all the time based on great home records or having no domestic distractions whilst it’s becoming harder for title winners to ever make the final any more. You can lose up to 6 games, not have to win away from home, and draw the final and still end up with a trophy. Quite simply it’s not the same level of challenge as a 38 game test that the league provides.

If I was Uefa I’d be looking to reform it. There’s too much emphasis on home advantage and the away goal rule. Spurs beating Ajax and City on away goals seems ridiculous when you look at the balance of play over both legs of those games. A one off knockout at a neutral ground for the latter stages would spice things up.
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An idea that has no chance of success as nobody will vote for it. It would doubtless provide Liverpool with more income though as Anfield would be high on the list of neutral venues on the occasions they failed to make the late stages of the competition.

Think other clubs need to.aim to get to their performance levels rather than change rules and formats. VAR certainly didn't hamper them in Europe so it is safe to assume it probably won't locally next season either.
 
Obviously if they beat Spurs they'll paint the champions league as the 'real prize'. But at the end of the day, two teams that haven't won their domestic league for 30 and 47 years are in the final.
 
catcherintherye said:
I watched the clip from old “Robbo” again and even though it’s only a short piece it’s actually quite illustrative of his thinking and the essence of the inherent contradictions of kopitism.

The obvious starting point is he contradicts himself not sure in the same sequence but in the same sentence. He opens with (and I paraphrase here to avoid the repetition of the abusive language) saying how awful Everton fans are and how it shows up how useless we are. Within the same sentence he also adds “I’ve done it”. It’s done almost unthinkingly.

At quite young age children learn to differentiate between different behaviors and see how they fit into the world around them. They begin to develop a consistent value set around that. So for example if they do something, and another child does something they begin to learn either what they are doing is good, or that if it causes him maybe what they had done is negative so needs to be stopped. So hitting someone is not very good, because when it’s done to them it’s not nice, so they stop. As indicated this process happens at primary school, quite early on.



His response to me shows no capability of being able to do this. He seems to think the same behavior done by others that he has done himself should be framed radically differently.

It could just be stupidity though in this instance its clearly not this. He’s not a stupid man (or at least he’s not intellectually incapable of understanding a contradiction most 8 year olds find easy to grasp). What you are looking at here is narcissism.

The most striking part of the clip is the 2nd part where he talks about going home and wishing we were them. This is the fuel for him. The idea that we all look at him and wish we were him. That’s whats going on behind closed doors. The world is essentially a bunch of people, however they act publically who privately just wish they could be as successful and talented as him.

This is true narcissism. The overwhelming love of oneself matched with an illogical world view that means an inability to spot even the most obvious of contradictory behaviors. His rationality for the contradiction would be that it’s great when he does it, because he’s great.

It’s also worth noting for people with such a world view that it’s actually almost impossible for others around them to behave in a way that won’t be criticized. It’s almost impossible for someone to love them as much as they love themselves, and when you fail in this endeavour you will be held responsible, however illogical it is.

What’s caused him such annoyance is not Everton fans partaking in some quite logical (for football standards) or mild actions when Liverpool don’t win the league (the same sort of celebrations they partake in when Everton were nearly relegated I should add). It’s the mere existence that irks him. That people exist, in in their private lives and don’t think he is amazing and something to be desperately emulated, but someone who ought to be pitied for mindset.

So yes, it’s not just that he’s too stupid to see the contradiction. What we actually have is a man, and people around him, people next to him, an editor who put it out etc etc who are incapable of seeing it.

The primary reaction to this is of course confusion. However for some it boils over into rage and anger. This is why again they can’t understand why people generally despise their behavior and see them as hooligans, because their behavior is primarily based on a value set of love not aggression. The problem is the levels of self love and delusion are off the scale and can’t exist with the realities of the world.

You’ll see on a grander scale this playing out too. They cannot accept that they are not a special team/club. It will mean they play out a narrative that they are actually champions when they finished 2nd. This will likely be somewhat abetted if they win the CL (which I expect) so you won’t get to witness it in all it’s untainted glory.

Unfortunately sections of the media pander to it, like parasite to host. It doesn’t really do anyone any good.

As for Evertonians, keep existing. The existence of supporters who are able to shine a mirror to them will cause the most anger and fear amongst them.
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You could have saved a lot of typing and just said hes a Kryten looking bellend
 

grandoldteam11 said:
I don’t understand half the posts here

Not only because English is not native to me and I am not a local but also I don’t really have that kind of anger / rivalry with LFC? I hate them too but purely in football terms and occasionally their fans. Is it really just a local thing ? And is it that bad ?
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Just local? No.
That bad? Yes.
 
It's going to utterly crush them if Spurs beat them in the CL final.

So many of them on social media saying it's in the bag and they're "back on their effing perch".
 
Yarrgh said:
He's right though, no one will think about them soon enough. Who remembers 2nd place? Who was 3rd or 4th? 5th? Does anyone look at a table of league runners up? Soon to be forgotten about.
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usually no one remembers 2nd place but this year I don't think we'll be letting them forget any time soon!
 

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