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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 2
- Thread starter daza_1973
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orly
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MikeH72
Player Valuation: £100m
He blocked me for comparing his head to a giant piece of sweetcorn.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
I think the issue is that I'm probably not quite clear enough in what I mean. Of course they don't have the skinhead far right caricature of what is far right. However I always remember a passage saying that if fascism comes to America it will be wearing a stars and stripes banner. What's more important when evaluating these things is not the specific cliched look of a Nazi but rather the wider base of it.
Sections of their support (and it's important we say this, it is not all) share all of the same entitlement and weirdness that characterises most far right movements. You see it now with the "alt right" essentially a bunch of losers into conspiracy theories. That's basically their online fan base all over. They have deluded themselves into thinking that the FA is a corrupt organisation that goes out of it's way to frame innocent white people found guilty of racially abusing black people. It's nuts. It wouldn't be out of place on an Alex Jones Podcast. And it's not a tiny minority either, it's large sections who believe that. That culture is allowed to thrive because (as far as I know) Liverpool have yet to offer a formal apology to Evra. As a club they distorted the issues at hand too, to allow for such conspiracies to come forward. Their manager out and out lied in front of millions of people saying Suarez shook Evra's hand. Most of their supporters still believe that too.
Now when you consider these actions, ask yourself is it so different to how say a Nigel Farage behaves? Claiming things that are untrue are true to hype up wider conspiracies.
As for the the song laughing about domestic violence, 100 women a year are murdered because of that. The song is disgusting and needs to be stopped. Again though, there will be little acknowledgement as to why it's wrong.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
I watched the clip from old “Robbo” again and even though it’s only a short piece it’s actually quite illustrative of his thinking and the essence of the inherent contradictions of kopitism.
The obvious starting point is he contradicts himself not sure in the same sequence but in the same sentence. He opens with (and I paraphrase here to avoid the repetition of the abusive language) saying how awful Everton fans are and how it shows up how useless we are. Within the same sentence he also adds “I’ve done it”. It’s done almost unthinkingly.
At quite young age children learn to differentiate between different behaviors and see how they fit into the world around them. They begin to develop a consistent value set around that. So for example if they do something, and another child does something they begin to learn either what they are doing is good, or that if it causes him maybe what they had done is negative so needs to be stopped. So hitting someone is not very good, because when it’s done to them it’s not nice, so they stop. As indicated this process happens at primary school, quite early on.
His response to me shows no capability of being able to do this. He seems to think the same behavior done by others that he has done himself should be framed radically differently.
It could just be stupidity though in this instance its clearly not this. He’s not a stupid man (or at least he’s not intellectually incapable of understanding a contradiction most 8 year olds find easy to grasp). What you are looking at here is narcissism.
The most striking part of the clip is the 2nd part where he talks about going home and wishing we were them. This is the fuel for him. The idea that we all look at him and wish we were him. That’s whats going on behind closed doors. The world is essentially a bunch of people, however they act publically who privately just wish they could be as successful and talented as him.
This is true narcissism. The overwhelming love of oneself matched with an illogical world view that means an inability to spot even the most obvious of contradictory behaviors. His rationality for the contradiction would be that it’s great when he does it, because he’s great.
It’s also worth noting for people with such a world view that it’s actually almost impossible for others around them to behave in a way that won’t be criticized. It’s almost impossible for someone to love them as much as they love themselves, and when you fail in this endeavour you will be held responsible, however illogical it is.
What’s caused him such annoyance is not Everton fans partaking in some quite logical (for football standards) or mild actions when Liverpool don’t win the league (the same sort of celebrations they partake in when Everton were nearly relegated I should add). It’s the mere existence that irks him. That people exist, in in their private lives and don’t think he is amazing and something to be desperately emulated, but someone who ought to be pitied for mindset.
So yes, it’s not just that he’s too stupid to see the contradiction. What we actually have is a man, and people around him, people next to him, an editor who put it out etc etc who are incapable of seeing it.
The primary reaction to this is of course confusion. However for some it boils over into rage and anger. This is why again they can’t understand why people generally despise their behavior and see them as hooligans, because their behavior is primarily based on a value set of love not aggression. The problem is the levels of self love and delusion are off the scale and can’t exist with the realities of the world.
You’ll see on a grander scale this playing out too. They cannot accept that they are not a special team/club. It will mean they play out a narrative that they are actually champions when they finished 2nd. This will likely be somewhat abetted if they win the CL (which I expect) so you won’t get to witness it in all it’s untainted glory.
Unfortunately sections of the media pander to it, like parasite to host. It doesn’t really do anyone any good.
As for Evertonians, keep existing. The existence of supporters who are able to shine a mirror to them will cause the most anger and fear amongst them.
The obvious starting point is he contradicts himself not sure in the same sequence but in the same sentence. He opens with (and I paraphrase here to avoid the repetition of the abusive language) saying how awful Everton fans are and how it shows up how useless we are. Within the same sentence he also adds “I’ve done it”. It’s done almost unthinkingly.
At quite young age children learn to differentiate between different behaviors and see how they fit into the world around them. They begin to develop a consistent value set around that. So for example if they do something, and another child does something they begin to learn either what they are doing is good, or that if it causes him maybe what they had done is negative so needs to be stopped. So hitting someone is not very good, because when it’s done to them it’s not nice, so they stop. As indicated this process happens at primary school, quite early on.
His response to me shows no capability of being able to do this. He seems to think the same behavior done by others that he has done himself should be framed radically differently.
It could just be stupidity though in this instance its clearly not this. He’s not a stupid man (or at least he’s not intellectually incapable of understanding a contradiction most 8 year olds find easy to grasp). What you are looking at here is narcissism.
The most striking part of the clip is the 2nd part where he talks about going home and wishing we were them. This is the fuel for him. The idea that we all look at him and wish we were him. That’s whats going on behind closed doors. The world is essentially a bunch of people, however they act publically who privately just wish they could be as successful and talented as him.
This is true narcissism. The overwhelming love of oneself matched with an illogical world view that means an inability to spot even the most obvious of contradictory behaviors. His rationality for the contradiction would be that it’s great when he does it, because he’s great.
It’s also worth noting for people with such a world view that it’s actually almost impossible for others around them to behave in a way that won’t be criticized. It’s almost impossible for someone to love them as much as they love themselves, and when you fail in this endeavour you will be held responsible, however illogical it is.
What’s caused him such annoyance is not Everton fans partaking in some quite logical (for football standards) or mild actions when Liverpool don’t win the league (the same sort of celebrations they partake in when Everton were nearly relegated I should add). It’s the mere existence that irks him. That people exist, in in their private lives and don’t think he is amazing and something to be desperately emulated, but someone who ought to be pitied for mindset.
So yes, it’s not just that he’s too stupid to see the contradiction. What we actually have is a man, and people around him, people next to him, an editor who put it out etc etc who are incapable of seeing it.
The primary reaction to this is of course confusion. However for some it boils over into rage and anger. This is why again they can’t understand why people generally despise their behavior and see them as hooligans, because their behavior is primarily based on a value set of love not aggression. The problem is the levels of self love and delusion are off the scale and can’t exist with the realities of the world.
You’ll see on a grander scale this playing out too. They cannot accept that they are not a special team/club. It will mean they play out a narrative that they are actually champions when they finished 2nd. This will likely be somewhat abetted if they win the CL (which I expect) so you won’t get to witness it in all it’s untainted glory.
Unfortunately sections of the media pander to it, like parasite to host. It doesn’t really do anyone any good.
As for Evertonians, keep existing. The existence of supporters who are able to shine a mirror to them will cause the most anger and fear amongst them.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
Where did you offer him out? I can't imagine he will respond.
....just noticed a Champions League shop has opened by the Greyhound in Knotty Ash. It’s where to go for your flags, banners and life size Mo Salah’s.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
You mean the team that has spent more than any other team on the planet in the history of football to not win a league is actually the best pound for pound team ever?
MikeH72
Player Valuation: £100m
A fascinating insight into the mind of this peculiar ape. Would read again.
toffeejack
Player Valuation: £100m
toffeejack
Player Valuation: £100m
mate, if i was sad enough, i could show you about 20+ of their games where luck has helped them get points they didn't deserve. Like i said, it's nothing to do with me being a blue, it was there all season, even until the last minute. City needed a bit of luck in about five games.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
I started formulating the thoughts on watching it again. It just didn't seem normal to me. He's not massively drunk having a rant or whatever.
From my time in education you'd often find that children would give a lot of their intention and thoughts away in passages like that. His mindset in terms of outlook and the ID/Ego mix has more in common with a child than the majority of adults so it's interesting to view it in that way.
The long and short of it is he loves himself so much he can't fathom a world where people do not love him for everything he does. When he senses that's not happening he gets extremely defensive and starts being rude. If he was 7 it would be quite easy to move him past that phase (it's in fact a normal part of growing up) but for a grown man it will be very difficult.
Take some solace from the fact that even if they were to win the European cup, and the multitude of insults that will come, he will still not be happy. People will never love him as much as he thinks they ought too. He;s drinking from the never ending cup.
toffeejack
Player Valuation: £100m
being welsh i am a bit ITK about welsh football and as soon as hennessey did that nazi salute, i heard the RS were interested in buying him. Ever since he's stated he has no knowledge about nazi salutes and wishes to 'cleanse' himself so to speak by gaining knowledge about the situation, they've dropped their interest. It's unbelievable, they want players to follow this far right ideology and anyone who wishes to learn more, to form their own opinion is basically being brushed aside as not worthy to join the cult.
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