davek
Player Valuation: £150m
You cant hate something you laugh at.
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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 2
- Thread starter daza_1973
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RedNotLikelyToPost
Player Valuation: £225k
As a red, I knew Henderson would miss. I think everyone thought he would. His pen was ok, and if the keeper had gone the other way it would have been called as a great pen, but he didn’t and I agree that he telegraphed it a bit, so whether it was a good pen or not is irrelevant.
I also thought Pickford was a bit crap with his pushing out of shots into the danger area vs Belgium but not really at fault for the goal, so some of the criticism was valid but the OTT flak for the goal was undeserved.
He’s not a great goalie, but so far his faults haven’t cost England, and he was the hero in the shootout so you can’t ask for much more than that.
Whether he’ll become a great goalie I don’t think so, but he’s young and should improve.
Very few goalies become great. Courtois started as one that could have been but doesn’t seem like one anymore, so that shows how hard it is.
I also thought Pickford was a bit crap with his pushing out of shots into the danger area vs Belgium but not really at fault for the goal, so some of the criticism was valid but the OTT flak for the goal was undeserved.
He’s not a great goalie, but so far his faults haven’t cost England, and he was the hero in the shootout so you can’t ask for much more than that.
Whether he’ll become a great goalie I don’t think so, but he’s young and should improve.
Very few goalies become great. Courtois started as one that could have been but doesn’t seem like one anymore, so that shows how hard it is.
RedNotLikelyToPost
Player Valuation: £225k
I also think the Karius concussion stuff is a crock of ...
Whether it’s because we want to sell him and are mitigating his loss of value, or whether they are trying to not let the cost of an incoming GK spiral, or simply because they don’t intend to replace him and want to give him a better chance of rebuilding his confidence, I personally don’t buy it, and never did.
Whether it’s because we want to sell him and are mitigating his loss of value, or whether they are trying to not let the cost of an incoming GK spiral, or simply because they don’t intend to replace him and want to give him a better chance of rebuilding his confidence, I personally don’t buy it, and never did.
As a red, I knew Henderson would miss. I think everyone thought he would. His pen was ok, and if the keeper had gone the other way it would have been called as a great pen, but he didn’t and I agree that he telegraphed it a bit, so whether it was a good pen or not is irrelevant.
Maybe he was concussed??
Maybe he was concussed??
RedNotLikelyToPost
Player Valuation: £225k
Maybe you shouldn’t quit your day job ;-)
Jacko93
Player Valuation: £35m
The trouble with all of this is, some people are judging only how the ball was struck. Henderson struck it well, but everything else about it was poor. Very poor. You could put it in the top right hand corner, but if everything about your run up and your shape tells the keeper that's where your going, he can commit more to his own movement. Diers penalty evaded the keeper, yet was closer to him, that has to say how his was better overall. He swayed the odds in his favour by preparing and executing properly, he 'owned the moment'. Henderson placed it better, but failed in every other aspect of penalties at that level.
ijjysmith
Calm
Fair play on being sensible.
Unless it’s called Cuco Martina.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
The thing I don't get with the Karius thing mate, is it seems like a massive risk from Klopp to contaminate himself with Karius. Whether he likes it or not now, the contagion has spread and he's gambling a fair bit of his stock which is high amongst the fans on this, for (for me anyway) not an awful lot of reward.
I don't think Karius is that bad a goalkeeper, the save he made off Bolasie at Goodison last season was a genuinely World Class save. I think he has technical hitches in his game, which at 25 won't be solved. More than that though, making a mistake of that magnitude in a game of that size means a goalkeeper is done. Whether thats fair or not, there's no way back for him. It's Dudek after the Forlan mistakes.
A section of your fanbase will never forgive him and will be on his back from the moment he steps out at the first game of the season. I don't think Klopp really appreciates the severity of what that means, or actually that Liverpool (and Everton) supporters are brutal when things aren't to their taking. His next mistake (and his technique leads him to be error prone) will change the atmosphere in the ground against the whole team and depending where you are in the league, the manager. That level of doubt will do nobody know favours.
I think Klopps logic is quite sensible on it, in as much as he doesn't want to pay silly money for a goalkeeper (Alisson) probably can't attract the very best (Oblak/Courtious) and doesn't want to pay $30+ for what he considers a marginal upgrade in Butland. It's a severe miscalculation for me though as I am not sure Karius will be the same after this experience and he will have to stand up to enormous scrutiny every week just to maintain his standard rather than kick on.
As I said above, the Karius contagion has now spread. The easy thing to do was to bin Karius off, let him develop at another side out of the spot light to become again a number 1 for a Premier League team. That was the logical move.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
The height is key critical though, Hendersons was a perfect height for the goalkeeper, neither high nor low. Diers was on the ground. Diers was also hit with more power whereas Hendersons finish was essentially a pass pack. The final point was it was very clear where he was going to put it from the moment he stepped up.
If you are going to Pick your spot, you cannot do it with minimal power and miss the high/low target by about 2 foot either way. Thats just poor.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
I'm far from Pickfords biggest fan but his faults are often wildly exaggerated. I think he is a great goalkeeper if you use many metrics and makes a number of very good saves. The one he made at the end of that game, is up there with one of the best saves I've ever seen. He has that ability.
Over and above everything else though, Pickford is as mentally strong as any player I've seen since Cahill. He doesn't get phased. I disagree goalies become great, most goalkeepers become great as they get a bit older. Even Southall was a bit shaky when he first arrived at Everton and it was only by about 84 that he really hit his stride. I think with Pickford's mentality he will get stronger as his reputation develops.
Of all of our players I have little doubt that Pickford could handle the pressure of a top team. In a lot of cases that's what separates players at that level. How can you handle pressure. Even in a terrible season, he shone through as a young player for us, which says a lot about him.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
I'll go one step further than that, the first elite team they met they lost too. I know some will say Manchester City but they are yet to get that pedigree in Europe to be taken as such. The top teams who'd have beaten Liverpool:
Real Madrid
Barcelona
PSG
Bayern
Juventus.
They get past none of those. All of them are incomparably stronger than the likes of Roma, Sevilla & Porto.
In terms of Europe, when you consider their record against Mourinho, it's also extremely likely they lose to United and given how Spurs annihilated them you can throw them in too.
Thats anywhere from 5 to 7 teams they were very fortunate to miss. In most seasons they get one of them in the round of 16, in almost every season you'd meet that quality of opposition in the quarter finals. Some years that would be at group level (IE they have one of those sides in their group, and be unable to finish 2nd).
Thats about their level, a group stage side to a quarter final team. They had monumental luck to avoid all of the above teams to get an easy passage to the final. They had to beat 1 decent team, coming off the back of an appalling league season, with a manager who was about to leave, a star player who would play his last game for them, a side who had massively underperformed domestically and in truth is probably 12 months over the hill. It was all set up for them. They blew their lines massively.
No amount of yankee, free market, hyper capitalist hospital judgements (while a world leading, scouse hospital sat on their doorstep, unable to be pressured into giving a the diagnosis the wealthy establishment institution wanted) can deflect from that.
As I indicated above, Klopp has tried to generalise from this to get himself off the hook that it's another bottle job from him (6 in a row) and from Liverpool (5 in a row). The reality is, he has spread the contagion. He should have just thrown Karius under the bus (which was the original plan with none of their team going over to console him). Sold him to Blackburn or wherever, got whatever portion of the wages they could get covered and let him rot out the rest of his career at a championship club. Job done. By backing Karius it now brings his judgement into question.
More than that though, we have a little thing called a substitute system in this sport. If he had this alleged concussion from a very clear collision (the sort of collision that happens 20 times a game by the way) which was easy to be seen, why did Klopp not substitute him? Why were the medical team not aware of the concussion when they treated him? What information was relayed back to Klopp? If he was concussed why was that not spotted? If it was why was it not given to Klopp? If it was why was it not acted upon accordingly?
He's opened a can of worms here. Don't expect James Pearce (Mr "It's ok to batter your wife because Mo Salah might do it") to ask any of these probing questions, but appreciate journalists will have them tucked away for a rainy day. If the big spending spree they are going on goes wrong, and FSG know they can't give money again and need to throw club under the bus they have a tonne of easy evidence to give to said journalists to do so if they so chose.
A really silly move.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
I think the jigs up for any manager when they start to so obviously look to cover their own mistakes by resorting to deflection tactics. Fans can smell it a mile off...even their fans...and so can players. It's weak and it's ultimately self defeating. It'd have been more impressive if he'd stated that he realises he's made his own errors in these cup finals he keeps losing and that it's time for some self examination. That would be a statesman-like thing to do. A self assured manager would do that. However, he's floundering now. He must know last season is as good as it gets for them in terms of the PL and the CL. The players he's bought dont look like they'll get them the next level up. Keita seems to be the one they're hanging their hopes on, but having seen him last season for Leipzig I think he's massively over-valued price-wise and not a dial shifter.
I see the media spin wagon is in full motion already, sky running a number of articles that they are title contenders to push city
So just the other 2 teams to get past and 20 points to make up.....sound
So just the other 2 teams to get past and 20 points to make up.....sound
4737carlin
Player Valuation: £90m
Funny really as i dont at all, i just find him funny. He add's to the delusion for them, which when reality bites such as the CL final it's harder to take
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