ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[davek]

I believe they are going to show an old message from one of his old mates the actor Terry Thomas.

Ha Ha Ha. Only just got that reference.

 

[Saint Domingo]

City looking ominous.

No wonder this place was rammed with Kopites looking to get a stampede going for Everton to be forfieted the points of the postponed game.

*waves*

City’s run of next fixtures look very winnable: Brighton, Palace, Villa, West Brom, Sheffield United, Burnley. I know every game in the premier league is a challenge but if City hit top form they could be looking at a long winning run there. Would really pile the pressure on Liverpool’s flaky away form.

 

[davek]

City’s run of next fixtures look very winnable: Brighton, Palace, Villa, West Brom, Sheffield United, Burnley. I know every game in the premier league is a challenge but if City hit top form they could be looking at a long winning run there. Would really pile the pressure on Liverpool’s flaky away form.

Impressive today. Pep sounds up for it again.

 

[gwladysnight]

It's not sying they are weak. They are a very fine forward line. Salah is world class, Mane and Firmino are extremely good (probably the level below world class) but perfectly suited to the system they are playing in. However within a few months 2 will be 29 one will be 30. Players do tend to slow up, particularly in a team/league that relies on physicality and pace. You have seen this already with Firmino, who's output has started to radically decline, and many of them wanted him dropped earlier in the season.

You also factor in, come the summer they all have 2 years left. Thats tricky, for players you want tom keep it's the "sign or leave" phase, as we saw with Ross. In fairness to them, I do think that will slightly change, with older playerslosing inherent value, but it is still a challenge for them. So it's not saying they are rubbish,more that they are declining in ability and there are contractual pressures for them.

They could easily have all 3 signed on to long term deals by the summer and the question goes away- whether the answer is right to keep them all is another matter, but the question is resolved. However if not I suspect they probably move 1 on to keep the other two. Don't be surprised at all though, if one is moved on, one signs and the other choses to wind a contract down.

As for Jota, you are right that he has been a smart signing. Probably less upside than Werner if he is to get settled but a more solid pick. That being said, for all the hyperbole, for a lad they paid 45m for, I am doubtful he scores 10pl goals this season. We will obviously see, but that seems to be the minimum bar youd want from a forward signed for that money, and he could well fall short.

As I said I think midfield is a far bigger issue for them. Personally I think tactically and physically it is much easier to play in the front three of a Klopp side. They play with three forwards who can play quite narrow because the full backs provide the width. They create a lot of chances and Mane, Salah and latterly Jota have shown that you can come straight in to the team and hit the ground running.

Mane, Salah and Jota have come in and their goal output has increased.

Playing in midfield for a Klopp side is a far more difficult proposition. You need huge amounts of energy which suggests you need young athletic players, but they also need to be tactically exceptional.

Klopp has only really trusted 4 players to regularly play centre mid. Milner who is 35 this month and can leave on a free, Wijnaldum who is 30 and can leave on a free, Fabinho who is playing centre back and Henderson who is 30. They have brought in Thiago but his injury record is horrendous.

The younger players like Keita, Oxlade Chamberlain etc have shown how difficult playing centre mid is for a Klopp side.

I think midfield is a far bigger concern for them than their forwards who are on long term deals and in the prime years of their careers.

 

[catcherintherye]

As I said I think midfield is a far bigger issue for them. Personally I think tactically and physically it is much easier to play in the front three of a Klopp side. They play with three forwards who can play quite narrow because the full backs provide the width. They create a lot of chances and Mane, Salah and latterly Jota have shown that you can come straight in to the team and hit the ground running.

Mane, Salah and Jota have come in and their goal output has increased.

Playing in midfield for a Klopp side is a far more difficult proposition. You need huge amounts of energy which suggests you need young athletic players, but they also need to be tactically exceptional.

Klopp has only really trusted 4 players to regularly play centre mid. Milner who is 35 this month and can leave on a free, Wijnaldum who is 30 and can leave on a free, Fabinho who is playing centre back and Henderson who is 30. They have brought in Thiago but his injury record is horrendous.

The younger players like Keita, Oxlade Chamberlain etc have shown how difficult playing centre mid is for a Klopp side.

I think midfield is a far bigger concern for them than their forwards who are on long term deals and in the prime years of their careers.

All very fair that. It is interesting that the midfield signings haven't really worked out.

I don't think it disproves the idea though, that 3 lads going into the final 2 years of their contract as they approach/hit 30 is an interesting dynamic.

I do also wonder if what you say- I.E they essentially make forward players better in said system, is why sides have ben reticent about moving for their top strikers?

 

[catcherintherye]

City’s run of next fixtures look very winnable: Brighton, Palace, Villa, West Brom, Sheffield United, Burnley. I know every game in the premier league is a challenge but if City hit top form they could be looking at a long winning run there. Would really pile the pressure on Liverpool’s flaky away form.

I mean this season especially they are, but outside of Villa they are all winnable. I also sense, in truth that Villa may be peaking a bit. Even 5 wins out of 6 and they are likely to be top.

 

[gwladysnight]

All very fair that. It is interesting that the midfield signings haven't really worked out.

I don't think it disproves the idea though, that 3 lads going into the final 2 years of their contract as they approach/hit 30 is an interesting dynamic.

I do also wonder if what you say- I.E they essentially make forward players better in said system, is why sides have ben reticent about moving for their top strikers?

Strikers have much longer careers now though. Look at the top leagues and there are plenty of strikers topping the charts in their 30's. In England the top scorers were Vardy and Auba,. In Italy there was Immobile, Ronaldo and Caputo. In Germany there was Lewandowski. In France there was Ben Yedder. In Spain you had Messi, Benzama and Suarez.

Personally I think they are in a good position with their strikers. They can either renew their deals or move one on a season. Jota covers one of the front three positions, so they have four or five windows to cover the other two positions.

Regarding other clubs signing their players. I think it is a combination of Coutinho bombing at Barca and both Spanish clubs being skint. They both have hugely expensive Stadium redevelopments to pay for. PSG are in a one team League and Bayern have only really paid over £40m on one occasion.

Their big issue for me is if they lose Milner and Wijnaldum in the summer. That will leave a huge hole in their midfield.

 

[Shevin Keedy]

Their big issue for me is if they lose Milner and Wijnaldum in the summer. That will leave a huge hole in their midfield.

If they do it will be due to the overbearing and obnoxious characteristics of the manager. I cannot imagine there would be that many players who would want to spend too long playing for him, he is genuinely odious.

 

[catcherintherye]

Strikers have much longer careers now though. Look at the top leagues and there are plenty of strikers topping the charts in their 30's. In England the top scorers were Vardy and Auba,. In Italy there was Immobile, Ronaldo and Caputo. In Germany there was Lewandowski. In France there was Ben Yedder. In Spain you had Messi, Benzama and Suarez.

Personally I think they are in a good position with their strikers. They can either renew their deals or move one on a season. Jota covers one of the front three positions, so they have four or five windows to cover the other two positions.

Regarding other clubs signing their players. I think it is a combination of Coutinho bombing at Barca and both Spanish clubs being skint. They both have hugely expensive Stadium redevelopments to pay for. PSG are in a one team League and Bayern have only really paid over £40m on one occasion.

Their big issue for me is if they lose Milner and Wijnaldum in the summer. That will leave a huge hole in their midfield.

Most of the players you've mentioned are abroad, but it's a fair point that players dont finish at 30 (it's been a big reason why I've been quite open to us signing players in their late 20s. Their value declines more sharply than their ability if it makes sense).

For them, Mane is the one youd worry about most as he relies most on pace. Salah has great close control and is great at getting shots off. Firmino is a player who relies on intelligence of runs. He has declined a fair bit already, so not sure how much more there is to go. Mane though, has also declined and it may continue. Either way, I expect all 3 to be lesser players than they have in previous years, but as you say, they wont fall off a cliff.

We are discussing abilities though, the initial issue was more on their contracts. To have 3 players, going into 2 years left is a challenge. The clock starts ticking from that point. Look they may box all 3 off by the summer, in which case problem solved. I havent heard much in contract talk though, and theres a lot of noise around Salah suddenly.

I wonder if they can and are willing to extend all 3s contract at the very high levels they are at, and probably face pressure to have to even up their wages? I'd imagine all 3 could command wages of circa 300k pw of they were available at a knockdown fee/bosman. For all 3 it would be a last big payday. They did something similar with Origi, let him wind it down and the paid him a small fortune to get him to sign (well in excess of 100 pw in addition to hefty bonuses) which was a mistake as they are struggling to move him on (no takers last summer).

So with FSG being traders, there must be some questions going on there. My gut feeling says they extend one, let one run their contract down and probably sell one this summer. I think Salah will go, and they may extend Mane. Just a gut feeling Firmino may be more marketable abroad for a big offer, in a slower league.

While Jota has started well, it really is only a start and hes a long way from filling that hole, particularly the Salah hole that could be left. I also think, Origi, Minamino & Shaqiri just havent delivered what they hoped they would in reserve. You can probably count on one hand how many each have scored in 2020 in the league.

So they are my thoughts. It will be interesting to here what you think. I agree with you Wijnaldum is a big loss. I'd love him here.

 

[jondel]

Ha Ha Ha. Only just got that reference.

Yeah Terry said tarby was very good at telling the time.

 

[Toast]

I do also wonder if what you say- I.E they essentially make forward players better in said system, is why sides have ben reticent about moving for their top strikers?

Andy Carroll, Daniel Sturridge have done well though...

 

[catcherintherye]

Andy Carroll, Daniel Sturridge have done well though...

I dont think either really played under Klopp. Sturridge bombed post Liverpool too.

 

[gwladysnight]

If they do it will be due to the overbearing and obnoxious characteristics of the manager. I cannot imagine there would be that many players who would want to spend too long playing for him, he is genuinely odious.

Most of the players you've mentioned are abroad, but it's a fair point that players dont finish at 30 (it's been a big reason why I've been quite open to us signing players in their late 20s. Their value declines more sharply than their ability if it makes sense).

For them, Mane is the one youd worry about most as he relies most on pace. Salah has great close control and is great at getting shots off. Firmino is a player who relies on intelligence of runs. He has declined a fair bit already, so not sure how much more there is to go. Mane though, has also declined and it may continue. Either way, I expect all 3 to be lesser players than they have in previous years, but as you say, they wont fall off a cliff.

We are discussing abilities though, the initial issue was more on their contracts. To have 3 players, going into 2 years left is a challenge. The clock starts ticking from that point. Look they may box all 3 off by the summer, in which case problem solved. I havent heard much in contract talk though, and theres a lot of noise around Salah suddenly.

I wonder if they can and are willing to extend all 3s contract at the very high levels they are at, and probably face pressure to have to even up their wages? I'd imagine all 3 could command wages of circa 300k pw of they were available at a knockdown fee/bosman. For all 3 it would be a last big payday. They did something similar with Origi, let him wind it down and the paid him a small fortune to get him to sign (well in excess of 100 pw in addition to hefty bonuses) which was a mistake as they are struggling to move him on (no takers last summer).

So with FSG being traders, there must be some questions going on there. My gut feeling says they extend one, let one run their contract down and probably sell one this summer. I think Salah will go, and they may extend Mane. Just a gut feeling Firmino may be more marketable abroad for a big offer, in a slower league.

While Jota has started well, it really is only a start and hes a long way from filling that hole, particularly the Salah hole that could be left. I also think, Origi, Minamino & Shaqiri just havent delivered what they hoped they would in reserve. You can probably count on one hand how many each have scored in 2020 in the league.

So they are my thoughts. It will be interesting to here what you think. I agree with you Wijnaldum is a big loss. I'd love him here.

All three of their forwards signed five-year deals two years ago. They are less than halfway through those deals. Since they signed those deals they have won the Champions League and the League whilst their most likely destinations Barca and Madrid have bombed.

Sadly I think Liverpool hold all the cards.

With their midfield I could see Milner wanting to finish his career at Leeds and Wijnaldum being attracted to Barca especially if Koeman survives.

 

[nikom court]

southamptons goalie has just tested positive,
impeccable timing!

 

[Alanbileysfeathercut]

Bloody hell old chubby Tory Tarby enjoyed a dig at us blues.