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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3



grandjoeblue said:
Is Thiago still the best player of all time because he can pass sidewards thousands of times per game?
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Ref heped them out last night by keeping him on the pitch. Rightfully booked after a couple of minutes he could have walked with a second yellow a few times, probably would have done if he was wearing a different shirt.
 
Lord Buckethead said:
Ref heped them out last night by keeping him on the pitch. Rightfully booked after a couple of minutes he could have walked with a second yellow a few times, probably would have done if he was wearing a different shirt.
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he had a mare last night - looked off the pace and Armstrong had him under his thumb for most of it. I wouldnt write him off; but that was not world class.
 
Ring master said:
lol
Klopp
"What Andre Marriner did with Sadio Mane tonight, I'm not sure that's okay. Man United had more penalties in two years than me in five and a half years.... but no excuses for tonight
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Classic Klopp
Step 1. Give excuse
Step 2. Cry about excuse and how it isn’t fair and other teams are treated better than poor Liverpool
Step 3. Say ‘no excuses’ so it looks like you didn’t give an excuse even though you’ve been whining for minutes
 
number4. said:
he had a mare last night - looked off the pace and Armstrong had him under his thumb for most of it. I wouldnt write him off; but that was not world class.
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I have given Thiago some stick so far so to be my usual contrarian self I'll provide some level of defence now. I didn't give him stick earlier on because he is rubbish, but more because of the typical overreaction from Liverpool fans to the lad, making out he was some once in a generation world class footballer who had singularly won his team the European cup. I thought that was too far, but he is a very good footballer, who has played for elite clubs his while career.

The concerns I had about him were really his size and physicality. He looked miles off the pace last night and I did highlight before the game the stupidity of Klopp starting him (so this isn't some wise after the event stuff). However in Klopp's defence, the lad has been training for weeks apparently, so he must think eventually he has to play. He may never be at a point where he is 100% happy with the pace and physicality of the league.

I did state he would struggle in a "doube pivot" in this league. If he olayed he needed to be a "10"- essentially given a free role. Again in fairness I'm sure the plan was to play him ahead of Fabinho and Henderson, which would have helped him a lot. What was noticeable last night- over the array of slack passes or his failure to create a meaningful shot on target for a team behind in a game for 88 minutes, was that Diallo- a 20 year old Southampton reserve dominated him, while Ward Prowse and Armstrong either ran past him or were able to release the ball with ease when he pressed them. Neitherare known to be particularly quick midfielders either- both would fall under the small but technical bracket.

He's comfortable and aesthetically pleasing on the ball and a "nice" footballer to watch- but given how Liverpool play- or what to play, it is difficult to see him as a 6. It's needs must for now though.

In his defence again, he was not helped by Oxlade Chamberlain who was lost last night and gave no support or Shaqiri when he came on who had a shocker as well. Oxlade Chamberlain has spent much of his career saying he wants to play in central midfield, and I appreciate the knee injury has had a bad impact on him (as they almost always do) but he didn't even hold his position last night. He's nearly 28 now the lad, and I'm telling you he's another Theo Walcott in the making, with constant excuses of "he's a young player it will come good" and one day soon we are going to blink and he will be 31 and we will have to reflect and stop saying it. For 40 odd million quid they paid for him, he was Sigurdsson levels of bad last night.

But yes Thiago, very good player, probably signed at the wrong age to play seemingly in the wrong position to really show his full repetoire of skills.
 

catcherintherye said:
I have given Thiago some stick so far so to be my usual contrarian self I'll provide some level of defence now. I didn't give him stick earlier on because he is rubbish, but more because of the typical overreaction from Liverpool fans to the lad, making out he was some once in a generation world class footballer who had singularly won his team the European cup. I thought that was too far, but he is a very good footballer, who has played for elite clubs his while career.

The concerns I had about him were really his size and physicality. He looked miles off the pace last night and I did highlight before the game the stupidity of Klopp starting him (so this isn't some wise after the event stuff). However in Klopp's defence, the lad has been training for weeks apparently, so he must think eventually he has to play. He may never be at a point where he is 100% happy with the pace and physicality of the league.

I did state he would struggle in a "doube pivot" in this league. If he olayed he needed to be a "10"- essentially given a free role. Again in fairness I'm sure the plan was to play him ahead of Fabinho and Henderson, which would have helped him a lot. What was noticeable last night- over the array of slack passes or his failure to create a meaningful shot on target for a team behind in a game for 88 minutes, was that Diallo- a 20 year old Southampton reserve dominated him, while Ward Prowse and Armstrong either ran past him or were able to release the ball with ease when he pressed them. Neitherare known to be particularly quick midfielders either- both would fall under the small but technical bracket.

He's comfortable and aesthetically pleasing on the ball and a "nice" footballer to watch- but given how Liverpool play- or what to play, it is difficult to see him as a 6. It's needs must for now though.

In his defence again, he was not helped by Oxlade Chamberlain who was lost last night and gave no support or Shaqiri when he came on who had a shocker as well. Oxlade Chamberlain has spent much of his career saying he wants to play in central midfield, and I appreciate the knee injury has had a bad impact on him (as they almost always do) but he didn't even hold his position last night. He's nearly 28 now the lad, and I'm telling you he's another Theo Walcott in the making, with constant excuses of "he's a young player it will come good" and one day soon we are going to blink and he will be 31 and we will have to reflect and stop saying it. For 40 odd million quid they paid for him, he was Sigurdsson levels of bad last night.

But yes Thiago, very good player, probably signed at the wrong age to play seemingly in the wrong position to really show his full repetoire of skills.
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Fair summary - If I was to hypothesize, I would suggest their biggest problem is not the loss of Van Dijk, but rather the impact of losing Fabinho in front of the back the four, that is their major problem.

They now have a lack of confidence in midfield and at the back, and that means there is a huge disjointedness between MF and forwards, hence the poor performance of front 3, ease at which they can be shut down etc etc.

Secondly - the form of TAA is a huge issue - I know there was talk of long Covid there, but something is very very wrong there, on form you would argue that Milner or Wiliams should be starting
 
Shibbywiggles said:
Classic Klopp
Step 1. Give excuse
Step 2. Cry about excuse and how it isn’t fair and other teams are treated better than poor Liverpool
Step 3. Say ‘no excuses’ so it looks like you didn’t give an excuse even though you’ve been whining for minutes
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He always acknowledges and congratulates the opposition team for their win/draw and says they deserved it; then he states his team created loads of chances and only the combined efforts of the officials and the PL schedulers stopped them securing a deserved victory.

It's going sideways for Klopp. People are fed up with him. A classless, gurning Teuton who's been found out along with his bang average team.
 
davek said:
He always acknowledges and congratulates the opposition team for their win/draw and says they deserved it; then he states his team created loads of chances and only the combined efforts of the officials and the PL schedulers stopped them securing a deserved victory.

It's going sideways for Klopp. People are fed up with him. A classless, gurning Teuton who's been found out along with his bang average team.
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He would be delighted if it was going sideways mate.
 
Myself and @number4. had a discussion a while back about this period. I appreciate some think he's a red- I have no idea and in honesty I really don't care either way- he is always a thoughtful and interesting contributor (and don't think he's a red FWIW).

We spoke about this being the period Liverpool (and by proxy Chelsea, Leicester, Spurs and to a degree City) would start to pull away with European games winding up. I didn't think they would, but he felt that all 4 would go on a run of 10 wins in 12 games. Liverpool to my numbers have won 3 from 8 (and oneof those wins was a last minute goal). I don't think there's any doubt as to who was proven correct.

However that wasn't the point of the post. In fairness to him, I actually think his thought processes were sound. IF Liverpool were likely to pull away, it was logical it would be through the December-January period while European competition wound up. This was the window they had, if they wanted to put distance between themselves and the chasing pack, as once European games and to a degree Cup games kick in, fatigue and travel starts to set in again.

As has been noted, that Christmas schedule couldn't have been kinder. No cup games, the longest rest of any side and 2 real gimme games. West Brom they could have stuck their reserves out and won. Newcastle should have been wrappedup at 60 to give a rest. Southampton are decent but at the end of a long and tiring road for them. 2 points and goal from 9 is really damaging, and it can't just be put down to the short term fatigue associated with Xmas.

It would seem to me (as I did highlight in the discussions) that there is a longer term fatigue built into those players. I know the easy answers are that they're allegedly not doping- which I simply don't believe are credible as rumours. More likely is a mixture of little-no pre season mixed in with age concerns of the squad (one of the oldest in the league) and the mileage in the legs they've gone through now finally catching up with them. The difficulty for them, is they get 1 of those 3 resolved for next season at best (there's no guarentees, with a Euro's and Olympics the way things are that we automatically get a proper pre-season). The other 2 points- they only get older and the players who are left standing are having to put unbelievabe mileage on their legs as Klopp simply won't rotate.

That would be my concern if I watched them. Sure they will get a mini break of 10-11 days going into United, but they had a similar break going into West Brom and in honesty it's had the adverse affect. Quite a few red mates I have have said that acually having a 7+ day break has rarely done them good in the 1st fixture back but they tend to catch it up from fixture 2-3 onwards. Thats them playing at peak though. With them running on empty, lacking confidence etc,what if that 1 game to recover becomes 2-3 poor games and the average games before htting top speed becomes 2-3. That would be 5-6 games before they really hit their stride again (assuming a simple 10 day break will be enough- which given whats happened it may not be). But 5-6 more games at this level means they are out of the title race, no doubt about it. They probabaly drop 10+ points in suh a period given those games.

So essentially- some will try to write it off as just the xmas schedule. I think there's something a bit more serious going on. I'd also state, expect more injuries. Those players will continue to start breaking down given the reckless way they have been managed by Klopp.
 
I think all the hugs are wearing off and they have a problem internally.

Playing Henderson at centre back was Klopp's petty way to get attention of their board to bring in a defender. The money they are losing this season is huge.

Previous they have balanced their "net" spend with a big sale i.e. Sterling, Coutinho plus smaller clubs buying their "squad" players with the exception of Sheffield United (stupid teds) they seem to be in a position of selling before they buy.

The latest Salah comments of him looking to move is interesting because they haven't condemned or tried to cover up because they are setting him up as the cash cow but I can't see Real, Barca or PSG spending over €100m.

All this with their current form, all the media will be spinning their lines all week.
 

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