ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC"

[catcherintherye]

I think 'the plan' of FSG's and the Kopites expectations and tolerance levels converge, but only as long as that means CL football - season-in, season-out.

FSG know that winning PL titles are not part of the demands on them at Anfield, and it doesn't significantly seem to impact on Liverpool's commercial pull domestically or abroad if they dont win the title. So the motive to step it up from that simple task of top four placings isn't really there.

They have the ultimate plan of reconfiguring that stadium and have LFC playing regularly in the CL. That becomes a very attractive entity to sell for a massive return on the £300M they paid for it. For that reason Rodgers is under pressure now and may not be able to survive the summer if/when they fail to grab 4th place.

The problem, it seems to me, with FSG's plan is that though managers are getting backed with transfer war chests, the wage 'restraint' they have in place is causing problems to the successful acquisition of top end players that can make the difference. So there's a contradiction at play there and maybe that makes Rodgers even more vulnerable in that FSG wont ditch the wage structure, they'll seek a manager who can bring in expensive 'second tier' players and make it a success in terms of CL qualification.

Yes it does. I think though that the Kopites are delusional over what "the plan" really is. They think they are going to conquer the world doing it, whereas for FSG it is about maximising returns. Every season that goes by without winning something is a step closer to this contradiction being blown open and we get protests MK 2 against the "yanks". When you read comments they are already slipping that way.

Yes it's very clear FSG's plan. The obvious difficulties (or from our perspectives humour) in the situation is 1) it is very hard to actually do (a lot harder than they first thought). There is every chance they will lose interest in it. 2) When time comes to sell I can't see them being too bothered who they sell too. We can only hope for another Glazier.

I think the problem that you outline is indicative of American owners who don't really understand how "the market" of football operates. It is very different to American sport, no draft system etc. They want to acquire the best young players and are prepared to pay over the odds for them as they see them as an asset they can sell on. the wages issue is more to do with keeping the wages to turnover manageable. As you say though, when they have a string of managers blowing money on average it doesn't work.

They are doing what Arsenal did. However Arsenal were building from being the best team in England (and perhaps in Europe) with a manager who is very astute at working on a tight budget, skilled at getting into the top 4 and not likely to break rank and demand more money. Liverpool are blessed with none of those things and the wage restraint they are after could start to go disastrously for them.

I see them developing how Villa have done. The Kopites will be out complaining soon make no mistake. As I said in the opening line the disparity between what they want and what the yanks want will start to become clear. I don't see them running these yanks out of town as easily though. As I've said I have the popcorn ready to see how it all plays out.

 

[PITA]

He is the epitome, the apotheosis ,of unintended self parody. And in this regard, he is perfectly representative of the LFC cult. Unintentional pasquinade directed toward themselves is their calling card, their accidental schtick.
Personally, I think Aldo is a gift from the Gods of comedy. I hope he never realises this...

Are you really Gyles Brandreth?

 

[davek]

Yes it does. I think though that the Kopites are delusional over what "the plan" really is. They think they are going to conquer the world doing it, whereas for FSG it is about maximising returns. Every season that goes by without winning something is a step closer to this contradiction being blown open and we get protests MK 2 against the "yanks". When you read comments they are already slipping that way.

Yes it's very clear FSG's plan. The obvious difficulties (or from our perspectives humour) in the situation is 1) it is very hard to actually do (a lot harder than they first thought). There is every chance they will lose interest in it. 2) When time comes to sell I can't see them being too bothered who they sell too. We can only hope for another Glazier.

I think the problem that you outline is indicative of American owners who don't really understand how "the market" of football operates. It is very different to American sport, no draft system etc. They want to acquire the best young players and are prepared to pay over the odds for them as they see them as an asset they can sell on. the wages issue is more to do with keeping the wages to turnover manageable. As you say though, when they have a string of managers blowing money on average it doesn't work.

They are doing what Arsenal did. However Arsenal were building from being the best team in England (and perhaps in Europe) with a manager who is very astute at working on a tight budget, skilled at getting into the top 4 and not likely to break rank and demand more money. Liverpool are blessed with none of those things and the wage restraint they are after could start to go disastrously for them.

I see them developing how Villa have done. The Kopites will be out complaining soon make no mistake. As I said in the opening line the disparity between what they want and what the yanks want will start to become clear. I don't see them running these yanks out of town as easily though. As I've said I have the popcorn ready to see how it all plays out.

Beyond all the FSG bluster about building for the future and 'no short termism' for them at Liverpool, their main business and cash cow was and remains the Red Sox. Liverpool was always just an opportunity they leapt on that was too good to turn down at the knock down price it was bought at. I doubt they really want to build dynasties in a sports organisation over here. They are North American based and wont give a toss about the status owning Liverpool affords them, merely the cash.

With that in mind - and the sale of LFC they will trigger after the stadium restructuring is complete - I'd have thought it'd be more pragmatic to turn the wage taps on a bit and rein in the transfer fees. That'd entail bringing in older players to the club who are confirmed top quality, but who are on frees or for sale at a lower price and will jump at the chance of a last big pay day. Not loads of them, but enough to leaven out the younger talent who dont have big game experience. Liverpool did that before a while back with players like Litmanen and Riedle. A mix of that nature would serve their CL cause better than the present policy of bringing in expensive potential.

 

[catcherintherye]

Beyond all the FSG bluster about building for the future and 'no short termism' for them at Liverpool, their main business and cash cow was and remains the Red Sox. Liverpool was always just an opportunity they leapt on that was too good to turn down at the knock down price it was bought at. I doubt they really want to build dynasties in a sports organisation over here. They are North American based and wont give a toss about the status owning Liverpool affords them, merely the cash.

With that in mind - and the sale of LFC they will trigger after the stadium restructuring is complete - I'd have thought it'd be more pragmatic to turn the wage taps on a bit and rein in the transfer fees. That'd entail bringing in older players to the club who are confirmed top quality, but who are on frees or for sale at a lower price and will jump at the chance of a last big pay day. Not loads of them, but enough to leaven out the younger talent who dont have big game experience. Liverpool did that before a while back with players like Litmanen and Riedle. A mix of that nature would serve their CL cause better than the present policy of bringing in expensive potential.

Yes it was pure opportunism. I also think they felt it would be easy to crack the top 4. 4 seasons in and they've managed it once. They have underestimated the strength of United-Arsenal and the money of Chelsea/City. As time goes by the more they lose interest and stop wanting to throw money at it.

I think their lack of pragmatism perhaps indicates that they were originally a bit more into it than you suggest. I do think they were interested in a longer term plan and had they have started achieving tangible results that could have been kept up. But football isn't so simple and their buy young sell high mantra isn't very effective.

I think they felt after an initial say 100 million they'd develop a young squad of worldbeaters. It would be a one off investment. They certainly didn't envisage still being outside of the top 4 and still requiring that 100 million year on year.

The real crux of the issue comes though with their fan base. These idiots are not Arsenal fans who can see the bigger picture. They might try and portray themselves as some sort of intelligentsia but they have an entitlement that knows no bounds. Arsenal have a world class stadium to show for their austerity, these will have a tarted up Anfield.

They are starting their fiscal tightening from being around 5-7th in the league, there is a long way they can fall. Soon they will start to get itchy. They will start to protest again. It will only pour petrol on the fire. It will accelerate the process. I think the yanks will lose interest and it will be like Lerner at Villa. They were like Liverpool 10 years ago finishing 5th or 6th. Suddenly the money was withdrew and they catapulted. That could be the future.

 

[davek]

Yes it was pure opportunism. I also think they felt it would be easy to crack the top 4. 4 seasons in and they've managed it once. They have underestimated the strength of United-Arsenal and the money of Chelsea/City. As time goes by the more they lose interest and stop wanting to throw money at it.

I think their lack of pragmatism perhaps indicates that they were originally a bit more into it than you suggest. I do think they were interested in a longer term plan and had they have started achieving tangible results that could have been kept up. But football isn't so simple and their buy young sell high mantra isn't very effective.

I think they felt after an initial say 100 million they'd develop a young squad of worldbeaters. It would be a one off investment. They certainly didn't envisage still being outside of the top 4 and still requiring that 100 million year on year.

The real crux of the issue comes though with their fan base. These idiots are not Arsenal fans who can see the bigger picture. They might try and portray themselves as some sort of intelligentsia but they have an entitlement that knows no bounds. Arsenal have a world class stadium to show for their austerity, these will have a tarted up Anfield.

They are starting their fiscal tightening from being around 5-7th in the league, there is a long way they can fall. Soon they will start to get itchy. They will start to protest again. It will only pour petrol on the fire. It will accelerate the process. I think the yanks will lose interest and it will be like Lerner at Villa. They were like Liverpool 10 years ago finishing 5th or 6th. Suddenly the money was withdrew and they catapulted. That could be the future.

It's a definite danger to FSG that they ignite fan protest at the way things are panning out, I agree. And they have a group there, the spirit of shankly, who are spooling for a fight with them.

They've certainly been generous on the transfer fees (net spend is massive in their tenure) and that, and there investment into the stadium, was something they must have factored into their calculations when they picked LFC up for at £300M. I reckon that's about the thick end of £200M on top of the purchase price (so about half a billion invested now). A hell of an investment that would take a lot of patience sticking with for years to bear fruit - if the long course was their aim (as they insist). I dont think it is. I'd guess they'll see a sale of Liverpool in due course as the way they'll go: sell it for over a billion and walk away. With infrastructure in place, they need the top flight football to go with it. That's where Rodgers, or more likely now his successor, comes in.

 

[deipnosophist]

I hate to be a stickler, but he is talking nonsense just there. I don't think he really knows what altruism or hegemony actually mean. If he did he would understand it wouldn't be appropriate to an imperialist, undemocratic, slave-owning society. He'd also know Ceasar did more to address this than anyone else. He's a cretin.

Cheap ad hominem insults aside, I suggest you acquaint yourself with the concept of benevolent dictatorship and its nod toward altruism within hegemonic oversight. I appreciate your design toward not being a stickler, but I do feel you need to attend to your basic grasp of English - and history.

 

[Walken]

I hate to be a stickler, but he is talking nonsense just there. I don't think he really knows what altruism or hegemony actually mean. If he did he would understand it wouldn't be appropriate to an imperialist, undemocratic, slave-owning society. He'd also know Ceasar did more to address this than anyone else. He's a cretin.

indeed the republic was a becoming a shambles when Ceasar acted, a slave orientated society with the average roman starving and out of work, would have been interesting if Ceasar would have acted as Sulla did and relinquished his dictatorship upon his passing and returned Rome to a republic once he had addressed these issue's, he also took Rome with far less bloodshed than Sulla

ps rodgers is a bell

 

[Blue 1]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...clause-relating-number-games-play-season.html

Martin Skrtel’s contract talks with Liverpool have hit a snag over a clause relating to the number of games he must play each season. The central defender, who is one of the top earners at the club behind Steven Gerrard and Daniel Sturridge, was thought to be close to agreeing a new deal. Liverpool were confident of wrapping up the contract before the end of the season, but it’s understood Skrtel has to play a high number of games - possibly as many as 80 per cent - to qualify for his full salary.

That mutant wasn't even first choice a bit ago. How's he one of the club's top earners? They must be really [Poor language removed].

 

[Sapie88]

Koff with the Rome talk ya blerts.

 

[Walken]

Koff with the Rome talk ya blerts.

You remind me of a young Quintus Hortensius, with your elegant rebuttal of this roman themed discussion

 

[a bell maul]

I hate to be a stickler, but he is talking nonsense just there. I don't think he really knows what altruism or hegemony actually mean. If he did he would understand it wouldn't be appropriate to an imperialist, undemocratic, slave-owning society. He'd also know Ceasar did more to address this than anyone else. He's a cretin.

Pot calling the kettle black there mate

 

[Kurt.]

i'm Spartacus

 

[toffeejack]

...on lighter matters, any updates on Aldo? lol

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/...at-his-presentation.75660/page-4#post-3537133

 

[Jacob]

If you hear an eerie noise and chains rattling before the game tonight, it will just be the RS Zombie Collective aka "The Night Of The Living Red" all as one murmuring in a crescendo...."see tha...see tha...Reina, Mascherano, Alonso, Suarez...if theydve stayed with us that would've been us there tonight yer know that would of...." and by the morning they will believe that morally theyre going through to the Final.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

*awaits Ratboy scoring and revealing a 'Doing it for Stevie G' t-shirt*