ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC"

[hullefc]

Bananas - Fever Pitch
Bananas

ARSENAL v LIVERPOOL

15.8.87


"Because my partner is small, and therefore disadvantaged when it comes to watching football from the terraces, I gave my season-ticket away for the afternoon and bought seats high up in the West Stand for the first game of the new season. It was the afternoon that Smith made his d'ebut for Arsenal, and Barnes and Beardsley theirs for Liverpool, and it was hot, and Highbury was heaving.

We were level with the penalty spot at the Clock End of the ground, so we had a perfect view of the Davis diving header that equalised Aldridge’s opening goal, and a perfect view of the astonishing twenty-five-yard header from Nichol that gave Liverpool their winner in the very last minute; we could also see, with terrible clarity, the extraordinary behaviour of the Liverpool fans beneath us and to our right.

In his book on Barnes and race issues in Liverpool, Out of His Skin, Dave Hill only mentions that first game in passing (“Liverpool’s travelling supporters went home delighted, any doubts about the wisdom of the manager’s summer shopping spree already on the retreat.”). He pays more attention to Liverpool’s game a few weeks later against Everton at Anfield in the Littlewoods Cup, during which the away supporters chanted “Niggerpool! Niggerpool”, and “Everton are white!”. (Everton, mysteriously, still haven’t managed to find a black player good enough for their team.)

Yet Barnes’s first game did throw up information that Hill could have used, because we could see quite clearly, as the teams warmed up before the kick-off, that banana after banana was being hurled from the away supporters’ enclosure. The bananas were designed to announce, for the benefit of those unversed in codified terrace abuse, that there was a monkey on the pitch; and as the Liverpool fans have never bothered to bring bananas to previous Arsenal matches, even though we have always had at least one black player in the side since the turn of the decade, one can only presume that John Barnes was the monkey to whom they were referring".

Racism in Liverpool was a city thing amongst some people, it was not just attached to any particular football club.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

(Everton, mysteriously, still haven’t managed to find a black player good enough for their team.)

Oh, apart from the bloke who scored the winner in the 1966 Cup Final eh Nick?

This is why I can't take that book seriously

 

[Donald Twain]

It's absolutely acceptable for kopites to refer to United as "Munichs".

Imagine if it was the other way around?

Thankfully the past five years has shown them up for the narcissistic bitter racist cockstashes they are. The media are even onto them and beautifully the average non kopite fan in the country both derides and mocks them.

That hurts them most as their biggest need is to be admired and literally no one does anymore.

With thanks to Suarez, King Kenny, Gerrard and legions upon legions of acute gobshite fans who can't help upping the stakes in ignorance and cringe.

Mrs Twain is a kopite!

 

[hullefc]

Oh, apart from the bloke who scored the winner in the 1966 Cup Final eh Nick?

This is why I can't take that book seriously

It doesn't matter whether you want to take the book serious or not. Hornby was making an observation about what he saw at Highbury on John Barnes's debut. And he mentioned the 'Everton are white' chants by some of our supporters at Anfield.

Hornby should have done more research on Trebilcock, but didn't, he was making a comment on the 1980s Everton team and not the 1966 Trebilock double.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Hornby should have done more research on Trebilcock, but didn't, he was making a comment on the 1980s Everton team and not the 1966 Trebilock double.

Then he should have clarified that point

He has, in my opinion, a bias against Everton. You can feel it throughout the book whenever we are mentioned

He doesn't like Everton and relishes any chance to have a pop

Of course there were racist chants during that time period, it was the 80's FFS. Every club had problems with it

Hornby, with that sly paragraph, is implying that Everton were worse than everyone else. He doesn't explicity say it, but you can sense the undertones

 

[davek]

The others were just complaining because they didn't think of it first.

 

[davek]

Bananas - Fever Pitch
Bananas

ARSENAL v LIVERPOOL

15.8.87


"Because my partner is small, and therefore disadvantaged when it comes to watching football from the terraces, I gave my season-ticket away for the afternoon and bought seats high up in the West Stand for the first game of the new season. It was the afternoon that Smith made his d'ebut for Arsenal, and Barnes and Beardsley theirs for Liverpool, and it was hot, and Highbury was heaving.

We were level with the penalty spot at the Clock End of the ground, so we had a perfect view of the Davis diving header that equalised Aldridge’s opening goal, and a perfect view of the astonishing twenty-five-yard header from Nichol that gave Liverpool their winner in the very last minute; we could also see, with terrible clarity, the extraordinary behaviour of the Liverpool fans beneath us and to our right.

In his book on Barnes and race issues in Liverpool, Out of His Skin, Dave Hill only mentions that first game in passing (“Liverpool’s travelling supporters went home delighted, any doubts about the wisdom of the manager’s summer shopping spree already on the retreat.”). He pays more attention to Liverpool’s game a few weeks later against Everton at Anfield in the Littlewoods Cup, during which the away supporters chanted “Niggerpool! Niggerpool”, and “Everton are white!”. (Everton, mysteriously, still haven’t managed to find a black player good enough for their team.)

Yet Barnes’s first game did throw up information that Hill could have used, because we could see quite clearly, as the teams warmed up before the kick-off, that banana after banana was being hurled from the away supporters’ enclosure. The bananas were designed to announce, for the benefit of those unversed in codified terrace abuse, that there was a monkey on the pitch; and as the Liverpool fans have never bothered to bring bananas to previous Arsenal matches, even though we have always had at least one black player in the side since the turn of the decade, one can only presume that John Barnes was the monkey to whom they were referring".

Racism in Liverpool was a city thing amongst some people, it was not just attached to any particular football club.

I've read that Dave Hill book myself. As I recall he tends to 'even things out' by underlining (at that time) LFC supporters bigotry - this time in relation to the Irish. He states that the club was a no go area for Irish fans or players at the time and that a walk around Anfield stadium at the time he saw stuff scrawled on walls like 'No Fenians here' 'GSTQ' etc. and hyping up the 'religious divide' in M'side football between us and them.

Basically he wanted to show us in a racist light and them in a sectarian light. That was the balance he struck. As with all stereotypes there was a grain of truth in each but it was exactly that: a stereotype imposed by an outsider.

 

[The Cowboy]

They've convinced themselves they are 4th in their alternative league........

The concept of this isn't so bad, if just to see where you have fallen down over the season. Problem is, they'll all see they are 4th and given more credence to this table than the real one!

 

[hullefc]

Then he should have clarified that point

He has, in my opinion, a bias against Everton. You can feel it throughout the book whenever we are mentioned

He doesn't like Everton an relishes any chance to have a pop

Of course there were racist chants during that time period, it was the 80's FFS. Every club had problems with it

Hornby, with that sly paragraph, is implying that Everton were worse than everyone else. He doesn't explicity say it, but you can sense the undertones

When I read the book I never got the impression that he was 'bias against Everton'. I don't think he implies Everton were 'worse than everyone else' in that paragraph. He even has a go at his own Arsenal fans. Hornby is sensitive with issues of race at football matches.

"I wish all the things that other fans like me wish: I wish that football commentators would express outrage more than they do; I wish Arsenal really did insist on the ejection of fans who sing songs about Hitler gassing Jews, instead of forever threatening to do so; I wish all players, black and white, would do more to make their disgust known. (If, say, Everton’s goalkeeper Neville Southall simply walked off the pitch in protest every time his own fans made these noises, then the problems at Goodison Park would stop almost overnight, but I know that things are not done this way.) But most of all, I wish I were enormous and of a violent disposition, so that I could deal with any problem that arises near me in a fashion commensurate with the anger I feel".

Hornby wanted people, players (Southall in this instance), clubs and the authorities to take action against racism at football matches. (It was written in the early 1990s when racism was still evident with the promise that it would be 'tackled'). Nothing wrong with that, and pointing out what some of our supporters chanted at Anfield was to highlight racism at football matches. Hornby could have said, 'well the same chants were heard at Old Trafford, Elland Road, Upton Park etc. Or maybe they weren't heard at those grounds and the 2 bits of racism he wanted to draw attention to was LFC fans throwing bananas and the 'Everton are white' chants. Hornby may have a dislike of Liverpool as a city and its people. But the likes of Hornby, and other football supporters should be applauded for taking a stance against racism and we have come a long way from those days. Even though, it still exists in the English game, as is evident from the racial abuse Collymore gets and the t-shirt backing support for Suarez.

 

[BlueIsTheColour]

their biggest need is to be admired and literally no one does anymore..

hits the nail on the head!

 

[ste d' indica]

Then he should have clarified that point

He has, in my opinion, a bias against Everton. You can feel it throughout the book whenever we are mentioned

He doesn't like Everton and relishes any chance to have a pop

Of course there were racist chants during that time period, it was the 80's FFS. Every club had problems with it

Hornby, with that sly paragraph, is implying that Everton were worse than everyone else. He doesn't explicity say it, but you can sense the undertones

Think he mentions the Undertones in High Fidelity more explicitly mate.

 

[MikeH72]

It's absolutely acceptable for kopites to refer to United as "Munichs".

Imagine if it was the other way around?

Thankfully the past five years has shown them up for the narcissistic bitter racist cockstashes they are. The media are even onto them and beautifully the average non kopite fan in the country both derides and mocks them.

That hurts them most as their biggest need is to be admired and literally no one does anymore.

With thanks to Suarez, King Kenny, Gerrard and legions upon legions of acute gobshite fans who can't help upping the stakes in ignorance and cringe.

It's one thing Twitter is good for, exposing them to the masses as the unbearable mutants they are. People won't be tricked by the media anymore banging on about how they're the most wonderful, passionate and knowledgeable fans in the world

 

[Steve0]

The concept of this isn't so bad, if just to see where you have fallen down over the season. Problem is, they'll all see they are 4th and given more credence to this table than the real one!

The problem is it's just retarded. I cannot understand why they think it's brilliant. I suppose drowning men ans straws and all that but HOW, just HOW can ANYONE see a 'Alternate' league table that has the bizarre premise that a win at home to Manchester City is the same as a home win against Bournemouth and take it serously?

It even says that a home win against Bournemouth is the same as an away one.

It's just utterly ridiculous. Freaks.

 

[LinekersLegs]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/sep/16/jordan-henderson-treatment-heel-injury-united-states
The Liverpool captain Jordan Henderson has undergone treatment in the United States in an attempt to cure an ongoing heel problem. The midfielder flew out on Monday to seek expert advice from the New Jersey-based Dr John Cozzarelli.
Since arriving he has been assessed and has undergone a procedure which involves a series of injections but he has not had surgery.

Henderson has missed the last three matches with the problem after limping out of Liverpool’s 1-0 win over Bournemouth last month and in his absence the team have earned just one point, in a goalless draw at Arsenal. With no date set for his return, the manager Brendan Rodgers has to find a way of rejuvenating his midfield after James Milner, Emre Can and Lucas Leiva struggled in defeats against West Ham and Manchester United.

 

[The Cowboy]

The problem is it's just retarded. I cannot understand why they think it's brilliant. I suppose drowning men ans straws and all that but HOW, just HOW can ANYONE see a 'Alternate' league table that has the bizarre premise that a win at home to Manchester City is the same as a home win against Bournemouth and take it serously?

It even says that a home win against Bournemouth is the same as an away one.

It's just utterly ridiculous. Freaks.

But you would argue that if you were aiming for 4th and above, 6 points vs Bournemouth would be a must. Failure to get them and you're already 'over-par'. I sort of see the way it works, and I guess it's about extrapolating results across the season, but as you say, it's grasping at straws if they think this actually means anything.