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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC"

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CLASSIC: A young Steven Gerrard asks Pep Guardiola to shake his hand after beating Barcelona 1-0 (2001)

Amazed he didn't get a smack. Class and dignity hey.
He's not thought of greatly in Europe. Not seen as a technician, seen more as an instinct/emotional player. They see his CL final game and acknowledge his role in that comeback, but he's basically viewed as an individual in a team game. Nowhere near thought as highly as Scholes, Rooney or even Lampard.
 

He's not thought of greatly in Europe. Not seen as a technician, seen more as an instinct/emotional player. They see his CL final game and acknowledge his role in that comeback, but he's basically viewed as an individual in a team game. Nowhere near thought as highly as Scholes, Rooney or even Lampard.
That's exactly what I have been saying to my rs 'mates', in some games he's the player to have but he's not a thinker. Give me Scholes any day
 
That's exactly what I have been saying to my rs 'mates', in some games he's the player to have but he's not a thinker. Give me Scholes any day

I dont think any of their managers were strong enough to discipline him into performing as a team player. Benitez played him out wide and he fought it; Rodgers tried to get him to play as a pivot but gave up as he went back into quarter back mode.

I never think of him as a great player. He scored great goals and crucial ones, but he's nowhere near any list of great players for me.
 
Gerrard's 2008 Southport antics, created a cloud over the winter of their 2008-09 season, when they dropped points that would eventually cost them the title. That was their best team by far and Gerrard knackered it up. Steven Gerrard thinks only of Steven Gerrard and not LFC despite what the Kopites say.
 

He's not thought of greatly in Europe. Not seen as a technician, seen more as an instinct/emotional player. They see his CL final game and acknowledge his role in that comeback, but he's basically viewed as an individual in a team game. Nowhere near thought as highly as Scholes, Rooney or even Lampard.

Yup, for me though it was hamman who made the difference in that final. Gerrard milked the glory that a goal will get you and because of his high profile the trogs will naturally pick him out but hamman when brought on after half time changed the entire game the bustard.
Still to this day I'll be in the pub listening to some bellends rendition to there chums whilst an lfc game is on the telly of how they were in Istanbul and it was the best night of there life. Yet at least 2 of them I recall sloping off at half time from the pub whilst I was happily quaffing copious amounts of beer, then reappearing in injury time to jump around like Freddie and the dreamers bumming a chimp. The mythical Istanbul were there were at least 150,000 brave kopshoites there if we were to belive the hyperbole of the great unwashed. Though in reality virtally every blert that tells you he was there was in fact crying into his wank sock in his grotty bedsit and sticking his Penis in a cold tin of beans.
 
This article needs revisiting right about now...

http://www.sundayworld.com/sport/op...st-self-obsessed-footballer-of-his-generation

Why Stevie G is most self-obsessed footballer of his generation


Essentially the leader who went AWOL at the decisive hour, who could offer only blubbering sobs when his troops needed direction, who abandoned his post in the heat of battle, somehow emerged with a Purple Heart pinned to his tear-stained chest.

Even the Fourth Estate chose to raise the white flag to the fairy story of Stevie G when the Football Writers’ Association arrived at the absurd conclusion that here was the second-best performer in the Premier League over the past nine months.



Straight faces were maintained at their London hooley as they deemed Gerrard’s body of work superior to Eden Hazard and, quite preposterously, Yaya Toure, the peerless touchstone against whom every midfield portfolio must be measured.


Distil the difference between Manchester City and Liverpool down to its essence, investigate why the former lifted the title on Sunday as the latter wallowed in a river of misery, and it is impossible to walk away from a pair of damning conclusions.

Firstly, the team that the Kop, in its ravenous hunger for a new age of prosperity, chose to prematurely deem soldiers of destiny, cannot defend: Liverpool leaked 23 goals more than Chelsea, 12 more than City, seven more, even, than a hapless Manchester United.

Secondly, in terms of leadership and inspiration at critical junctures from its midfield talisman, the contribution of Toure – one which goes way beyond his stunning 20 league goals input – dwarfs that of Gerrard, renders it a nothing.

These two flaws fatally merged at Crystal Palace when Gerrard, deemed Europe’s pre-eminent controlling midfielder by his manager, became the very opposite, a vision of disorganised chaos, as the Eagles landed three killer blows.

This is not to say that Gerrard had a poor season, not at all. But to deem him among the brightest stars in the season’s constellation is simply a work of fiction, a sop to saccharine-induced nostalgia.

It says much for the Englishman’s genius for self-promotion that he would garner more first preference votes than the transcendent Ivorian in the Player of the Year poll conducted by those who scribble about the game on a daily basis.

Here is a triumph of mush over substance, the creation of the greatest fable since the days of Aesop.

Perhaps the writers, like Gerrard himself against Chelsea in what has emerged as the defining image of the season and a treasure trove for parody, had suffered a cataclysmic, collective and concussive slip that had scrambled their senses.

Liverpool fans tend to rewrite history when it comes to the player who did just about everything in his power to board the Chelsea express in 2004 (Google his quotes from that time) until thuggish threats to his family persuaded him to step back.


And in the process Gerrard has become half man, half folk-ballad.

Second-best in England this season? He wasn’t even remotely close to being second best at his own club.

In truth, he ranked somewhere between the fourth and eighth most valuable player at Liverpool.

Unquestionably adrift of Luis Suarez, Daniel Sturridge and Raheem Sterling, any honest internal poll would have him jostling with Jordan Henderson, Philippe Coutinho and Simon Mignolet for the minor placings in a thrilling year of rebirth.

Gerrard was not in the top 20 performers in England.

Of those who can loosely be termed midfielders, he trailed Toure, Hazard, David Silva, Willian, Fernandinho, Adam Lallana, Santi Cazorla and, perhaps, Henderson. Aaron Ramsey in his three months of fitness was a vividly more stellar figure.

Those who observed Gerrard’s comically inept display against Aston Villa at Anfield in January could only assume Brendan Rodgers had spent the evening socialising with the ghosts of Hunter S Thompson, Oliver Reed and George Best when he recently deemed Gerrard “the best in European football in a controlling role”.

Where was the control when he keeled over like a bullet-ridden Bambi against Chelsea?

If that was a cruel taunt from the heavens, there was no outside influence as Liverpool blew that three-goal lead at Palace last week.

A holding midfielder of substance – a Keane, a Vieira, – would have stood up in the face of such impertinence from the underclasses, would have stamped their authority on the south London turf and crushed any hint of a proletariat uprising.

Gerrard – all General MacArthur in his public utterances before the game – merely dissolved into the night.

The man who has shamelessly played to the Sky Sports lens these past few weeks was suddenly pushing the camera away, railing against the very intrusions he had not only invited, but demanded after each decisive Liverpool step forward.

It is true he enjoyed a memorable afternoon as City were downed, but would that helter-skelter contest have followed the same storyline had the immense Toure not been ambushed by injury in the early minutes?

If Rodgers in that earlier quote was referring to his skipper’s capacity to “control” the perceptions surrounding him then perhaps he had a point.

Gerrard is England’s captain and he is peerless at one aspect of the modern game: Feeding the Great Myth.

Whether it is through tears or fist-pumping rallying cries or the smitten, innocent-in-love badge kissing, he creates the illusion of being the ultimate team-player.

In truth, Gerrard is a credible rival to Cristiano Ronaldo and Zlatan Ibrahimovich for the title of most self-obsessed footballer of his generation.

Yet so many fall for the great delusion of Stevie G, the unbending one-club man.

Whether it is turning on the tear-taps or morphing into Russell Crowe after the victory over City when gathering his players in a post-match huddle for his mortifying Gladiator speech, his genius is to cultivate this image as Liverpool’s bastion.

He is the selfless hero, the fearless superintendent, the upholder of standards, the solid Scouser, the forever loyal Red, the man who will keep the darkness at bay.

The only problem is when the truth intrudes upon the narrative.

Like when night fell for Liverpool supporters on Sunday as City – despite being stripped of their world-class striker for most of the season – were crowned champions for the second time in three seasons.

Led by Toure, a midfield player from a different continent to Gerrard by birth; and a different planet when it comes to leadership and achievement.
 
I dont think any of their managers were strong enough to discipline him into performing as a team player. Benitez played him out wide and he fought it; Rodgers tried to get him to play as a pivot but gave up as he went back into quarter back mode.

I never think of him as a great player. He scored great goals and crucial ones, but he's nowhere near any list of great players for me.

He was a Mick Lyons type player. Heart on the sleeve, put everything into a game, but no brain.....both Lampard and Scholes were much better players....
 
This article needs revisiting right about now...

http://www.sundayworld.com/sport/op...st-self-obsessed-footballer-of-his-generation

Why Stevie G is most self-obsessed footballer of his generation


Essentially the leader who went AWOL at the decisive hour, who could offer only blubbering sobs when his troops needed direction, who abandoned his post in the heat of battle, somehow emerged with a Purple Heart pinned to his tear-stained chest.

Even the Fourth Estate chose to raise the white flag to the fairy story of Stevie G when the Football Writers’ Association arrived at the absurd conclusion that here was the second-best performer in the Premier League over the past nine months.



Straight faces were maintained at their London hooley as they deemed Gerrard’s body of work superior to Eden Hazard and, quite preposterously, Yaya Toure, the peerless touchstone against whom every midfield portfolio must be measured.


Distil the difference between Manchester City and Liverpool down to its essence, investigate why the former lifted the title on Sunday as the latter wallowed in a river of misery, and it is impossible to walk away from a pair of damning conclusions.

Firstly, the team that the Kop, in its ravenous hunger for a new age of prosperity, chose to prematurely deem soldiers of destiny, cannot defend: Liverpool leaked 23 goals more than Chelsea, 12 more than City, seven more, even, than a hapless Manchester United.

Secondly, in terms of leadership and inspiration at critical junctures from its midfield talisman, the contribution of Toure – one which goes way beyond his stunning 20 league goals input – dwarfs that of Gerrard, renders it a nothing.

These two flaws fatally merged at Crystal Palace when Gerrard, deemed Europe’s pre-eminent controlling midfielder by his manager, became the very opposite, a vision of disorganised chaos, as the Eagles landed three killer blows.

This is not to say that Gerrard had a poor season, not at all. But to deem him among the brightest stars in the season’s constellation is simply a work of fiction, a sop to saccharine-induced nostalgia.

It says much for the Englishman’s genius for self-promotion that he would garner more first preference votes than the transcendent Ivorian in the Player of the Year poll conducted by those who scribble about the game on a daily basis.

Here is a triumph of mush over substance, the creation of the greatest fable since the days of Aesop.

Perhaps the writers, like Gerrard himself against Chelsea in what has emerged as the defining image of the season and a treasure trove for parody, had suffered a cataclysmic, collective and concussive slip that had scrambled their senses.

Liverpool fans tend to rewrite history when it comes to the player who did just about everything in his power to board the Chelsea express in 2004 (Google his quotes from that time) until thuggish threats to his family persuaded him to step back.


And in the process Gerrard has become half man, half folk-ballad.

Second-best in England this season? He wasn’t even remotely close to being second best at his own club.

In truth, he ranked somewhere between the fourth and eighth most valuable player at Liverpool.

Unquestionably adrift of Luis Suarez, Daniel Sturridge and Raheem Sterling, any honest internal poll would have him jostling with Jordan Henderson, Philippe Coutinho and Simon Mignolet for the minor placings in a thrilling year of rebirth.

Gerrard was not in the top 20 performers in England.

Of those who can loosely be termed midfielders, he trailed Toure, Hazard, David Silva, Willian, Fernandinho, Adam Lallana, Santi Cazorla and, perhaps, Henderson. Aaron Ramsey in his three months of fitness was a vividly more stellar figure.

Those who observed Gerrard’s comically inept display against Aston Villa at Anfield in January could only assume Brendan Rodgers had spent the evening socialising with the ghosts of Hunter S Thompson, Oliver Reed and George Best when he recently deemed Gerrard “the best in European football in a controlling role”.

Where was the control when he keeled over like a bullet-ridden Bambi against Chelsea?

If that was a cruel taunt from the heavens, there was no outside influence as Liverpool blew that three-goal lead at Palace last week.

A holding midfielder of substance – a Keane, a Vieira, – would have stood up in the face of such impertinence from the underclasses, would have stamped their authority on the south London turf and crushed any hint of a proletariat uprising.

Gerrard – all General MacArthur in his public utterances before the game – merely dissolved into the night.

The man who has shamelessly played to the Sky Sports lens these past few weeks was suddenly pushing the camera away, railing against the very intrusions he had not only invited, but demanded after each decisive Liverpool step forward.

It is true he enjoyed a memorable afternoon as City were downed, but would that helter-skelter contest have followed the same storyline had the immense Toure not been ambushed by injury in the early minutes?

If Rodgers in that earlier quote was referring to his skipper’s capacity to “control” the perceptions surrounding him then perhaps he had a point.

Gerrard is England’s captain and he is peerless at one aspect of the modern game: Feeding the Great Myth.

Whether it is through tears or fist-pumping rallying cries or the smitten, innocent-in-love badge kissing, he creates the illusion of being the ultimate team-player.

In truth, Gerrard is a credible rival to Cristiano Ronaldo and Zlatan Ibrahimovich for the title of most self-obsessed footballer of his generation.

Yet so many fall for the great delusion of Stevie G, the unbending one-club man.

Whether it is turning on the tear-taps or morphing into Russell Crowe after the victory over City when gathering his players in a post-match huddle for his mortifying Gladiator speech, his genius is to cultivate this image as Liverpool’s bastion.

He is the selfless hero, the fearless superintendent, the upholder of standards, the solid Scouser, the forever loyal Red, the man who will keep the darkness at bay.

The only problem is when the truth intrudes upon the narrative.

Like when night fell for Liverpool supporters on Sunday as City – despite being stripped of their world-class striker for most of the season – were crowned champions for the second time in three seasons.

Led by Toure, a midfield player from a different continent to Gerrard by birth; and a different planet when it comes to leadership and achievement.
Completely nails Gerrard.
 

Yup, for me though it was hamman who made the difference in that final. Gerrard milked the glory that a goal will get you and because of his high profile the trogs will naturally pick him out but hamman when brought on after half time changed the entire game the bustard.
Still to this day I'll be in the pub listening to some bellends rendition to there chums whilst an lfc game is on the telly of how they were in Istanbul and it was the best night of there life. Yet at least 2 of them I recall sloping off at half time from the pub whilst I was happily quaffing copious amounts of beer, then reappearing in injury time to jump around like Freddie and the dreamers bumming a chimp. The mythical Istanbul were there were at least 150,000 brave kopshoites there if we were to belive the hyperbole of the great unwashed. Though in reality virtally every blert that tells you he was there was in fact crying into his wank sock in his grotty bedsit and sticking his Penis in a cold tin of beans.
Hamman. Funnily enough, when Liverpool reached the QF of the CL in 2002 under Houllier they played Leverkusen in the away leg and Hamman was subbed with half an hour to go when they were still up in the tie and headed to the semis. Leverkusen ran riot after that and subbing Hamman was seen as the biggest error of Houlliers time at Liverpool.
 
He's not thought of greatly in Europe. Not seen as a technician, seen more as an instinct/emotional player. They see his CL final game and acknowledge his role in that comeback, but he's basically viewed as an individual in a team game. Nowhere near thought as highly as Scholes, Rooney or even Lampard.

Even Henry in the Sky wankfest said his greatest quality was leadership rather than anything technical. How many international tournaments did he play in and not influence a single game?
 

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