ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC"

[catcherintherye]

Great post.

What's the score with there new stand?? How was that funded.

FSG have loaned them the money, they are paying it back with interest.

 

[peteblue]

It's unfortunate that their big stand is facing away from where our new ground will be......

 

[boris]

FSG have loaned them the money, they are paying it back with interest.

Cheers, do you know what type of interest rate they pay. I'm particularly interested to know how it compares to the interest rate we will pay using the councils facility.

 

[catcherintherye]

Cheers, do you know what type of interest rate they pay. I'm particularly interested to know how it compares to the interest rate we will pay using the councils facility.

I know FSG gave them a pretty good deal. Lower than standard bank interest. I suspect ours will be competitive if not less than there's as we have a council as a guarantor.

 

[boris]

I know FSG gave them a pretty good deal. Lower than standard bank interest. I suspect ours will be competitive if not less than there's as we have a council as a guarantor.

I'd love to find out exactly what they're paying but it seems to be very hush hush.

The lurking kopites seem to be obsessed with Moshri not paying for the stadium outright and think cause we've borrowed that means he's not interested in investing.

I don't think they quite understand how rich people make money by backing there own ability to manage there money. What's better?? Pay for the ground outright, have no borrowing but have £350 million tied up in an asset or to borrow money, at a brilliant interest rate, which is very manageable, and then invest your capital in other areas to increase your revenue.

By paying £15-20 mill per year in repayments it allows Moshri to invest big in the squad and possible generate larger sums that are way above the interest rates we're paying, if the investment is done well.

For example, Leicester are rumoured to have made £150 million from there champions lge run. If we could get to that level, the £15-20 mill interest payments become insignificant hence why I expect us to spend big.

Also, has anyone told the lurkers that Moshri has a charge (a guarantee) to take full control once certain criteria is met, which I assume is the ground being actually built. They seem to thick to realise this and are obsessed with saying Moshri doesn't want full control and is only a minority shareholder when in reality, full control is just around the corner and already agreed.

 

[catcherintherye]

I'd love to find out exactly what they're paying but it seems to be very hush hush.

The lurking kopites seem to be obsessed with Moshri not paying for the stadium outright and think cause we've borrowed that means he's not interested in investing.

I don't think they quite understand how rich people make money by backing there own ability to manage there money. What's better?? Pay for the ground outright, have no borrowing but have £350 million tied up in an asset or to borrow money, at a brilliant interest rate, which is very manageable, and then invest your capital in other areas to increase your revenue.

By paying £15-20 mill per year in repayments it allows Moshri to invest big in the squad and possible generate larger sums that are way above the interest rates we're paying, if the investment is done well.

For example, Leicester are rumoured to have made £150 million from there champions lge run. If we could get to that level, the £15-20 mill interest payments become insignificant hence why I expect us to spend big.

Also, has anyone told the lurkers that Moshri has a charge (a guarantee) to take full control once certain criteria is met, which I assume is the ground being actually built. They seem to thick to realise this and are obsessed with saying Moshri doesn't want full control and is only a minority shareholder when in reality, full control is just around the corner and already agreed.

I'll come back to this later mate. My latest post seems to have caused some interest on RAWK with the usual obligatory misquoting and straw manning, so for you Kopite lurkers I'll be back with a response later today all things being well!

 

[catcherintherye]

A quick reply to the rats over on Rawk who have strawmanned my position and as usual lacked the cognitive capabilities to grasp the nuance (or even the essence) of the point.

My post was in part a direct reply to tubby Atkinson over at TAW making the claim none of the Everton side would get into his Liverpool team. His main evidence for this was the sample size of one game. As you were though, Lukaku definitely isn’t better than Firmino or Origi. I won’t make the counter case, there is no need. Sometiems things are so obvious you don’t need too. I’m sure some of the more sensible reds can see past the cult thinking that pervades. Anyway to the quotes.

“our team in the derby cost less”
Yes our team cost less and yes it looked like a side that cost less. There was nothing in the text to suggest otherwise. The point is, given the large differential in spending for Everton to be within 3 or 4 places of Liverpool is a decent achievement. Not just Liverpool, we are the odd one out of the top 7 teams in terms of money spent. The challenge for Everton remains, if we increase the values spent can we do so prudently.

“we signed him in January 2013, when he was about 20 years old. He's been getting steadily better the whole time. Do they not even get simple stuff like that?”
This is a point from the same poster on Coutinho. I don’t remember any of the text questioning that. Coutinho has improved year on year and is a very decent footballer.

“Revenue streams”
There was some query about revenue streams not increasing. Our shirt sponsorship is likely to be 300% of what it was. New deals are being agreed all the time. A ground which open up enormous potential (if/when built) to continue that process. We are starting from a low base, well below Liverpool (who are very successful in this area). Pointing out the additional revenue Liverpool have doesn’t change the scale of improvement by Everton.

“I also like how they mention Tuchel is only under performing at Dortmund because Klopp was at a successful club,they were in the bottom half of the Bundesliga when Klopp took over,Tuchel took over a team that was still essentially Klopp's team where the majority had won domestic titles and cups and got to a CL final.”
Did he? Most of the star men of Klopp’s era had gone or been run into the ground. Levandovski, Goetze, Kagawa, Mikhatarian, Sahin etc have all gone. Klopp left a side that was bottom of the league at Christmas and in a huge mess. They were a mid season break away from catastrophe.

As for Europe being terrified, who’s terrified? Give me one quote from anyone who is any way terrified of Liverpool? Nobody is bothered, it’s a fantasy you’ve told yourselves to make yourself feel important. The Real Madrid job has opened numerous times, has Klopp ever been interviewed? Has he even been considered?

When the Barca job was open Koeman was listed as the favourite for the job with the bookies, and across the Spanish media and even the local paper of the City that Klopp works in. I barely remember seeing ay links to Klopp. It’s fanciful rubbish, Klopp was not considered for either of the big 2 Spanish jobs unlike Koeman.


“If they are superior why can’t they beat us in the derby?”
I’ve not claimed anywhere we are superior. I mentioned an FT article which showed Everton ran an efficient pound per pound metric. Athletico Madrid top this metric, losing to Real Madrid doesn’t change this? We lose derbies as a mixture of a mental block against the top teams and that we are starting from a much lower base when we spend money.

“Yes he is doing something different... He's not backing their stadium build..

He's so unwilling to put his money where his mouth is, that the people of Liverpool are having to back it because he's unwilling to...”

It’s difficult to know where to start with this ignorance. No owner has ever built a football stadium. It’s a reasonable stick to beat Koeman with, but you would have to beat every other owner with the same stick. He’s used connections and finance to ensure we have a very sweet deal, which means his liquidity doesn’t need to be tied up into this.

As for the Council tax payers paying for it? They won’t pay a penny. They will receive over 4 million pounds per year to help the infrastructure projects, some can hopefully go to try and renovate the area of Anfield you have greatly damaged.

“The best part of that post is "spent a billion pounds over ten years to win a Carling cup". Such an arbitrary time period to use.
Why not, say, 22 years? Let's compare spend/trophies in that time.”

You have to laugh at this, and the lack of any kind of irony. A decade is an arbitrary number yet 22 isn’t? Yet more Kopite logic (alternative facts) for you there.

Anyway, here all week for you lads. I’l be going to the “red pub” on Tuesday night and will try again to tell the rats not to subscribe to the Sun Newspaper. It will likely fall on death ears though. Imagine that, having to have an Evertonian argue with a post owned by and run for Liverpool fans about why subscribing to several copies of the Sun newspaper is problematic. The phrase scum of the earth is too kind.

 

[jaycee]

A quick reply to the rats over on Rawk who have strawmanned my position and as usual lacked the cognitive capabilities to grasp the nuance (or even the essence) of the point.

My post was in part a direct reply to tubby Atkinson over at TAW making the claim none of the Everton side would get into his Liverpool team. His main evidence for this was the sample size of one game. As you were though, Lukaku definitely isn’t better than Firmino or Origi. I won’t make the counter case, there is no need. Sometiems things are so obvious you don’t need too. I’m sure some of the more sensible reds can see past the cult thinking that pervades. Anyway to the quotes.

“our team in the derby cost less”
Yes our team cost less and yes it looked like a side that cost less. There was nothing in the text to suggest otherwise. The point is, given the large differential in spending for Everton to be within 3 or 4 places of Liverpool is a decent achievement. Not just Liverpool, we are the odd one out of the top 7 teams in terms of money spent. The challenge for Everton remains, if we increase the values spent can we do so prudently.

“we signed him in January 2013, when he was about 20 years old. He's been getting steadily better the whole time. Do they not even get simple stuff like that?”
This is a point from the same poster on Coutinho. I don’t remember any of the text questioning that. Coutinho has improved year on year and is a very decent footballer.

“Revenue streams”
There was some query about revenue streams not increasing. Our shirt sponsorship is likely to be 300% of what it was. New deals are being agreed all the time. A ground which open up enormous potential (if/when built) to continue that process. We are starting from a low base, well below Liverpool (who are very successful in this area). Pointing out the additional revenue Liverpool have doesn’t change the scale of improvement by Everton.

“I also like how they mention Tuchel is only under performing at Dortmund because Klopp was at a successful club,they were in the bottom half of the Bundesliga when Klopp took over,Tuchel took over a team that was still essentially Klopp's team where the majority had won domestic titles and cups and got to a CL final.”
Did he? Most of the star men of Klopp’s era had gone or been run into the ground. Levandovski, Goetze, Kagawa, Mikhatarian, Sahin etc have all gone. Klopp left a side that was bottom of the league at Christmas and in a huge mess. They were a mid season break away from catastrophe.

As for Europe being terrified, who’s terrified? Give me one quote from anyone who is any way terrified of Liverpool? Nobody is bothered, it’s a fantasy you’ve told yourselves to make yourself feel important. The Real Madrid job has opened numerous times, has Klopp ever been interviewed? Has he even been considered?

When the Barca job was open Koeman was listed as the favourite for the job with the bookies, and across the Spanish media and even the local paper of the City that Klopp works in. I barely remember seeing ay links to Klopp. It’s fanciful rubbish, Klopp was not considered for either of the big 2 Spanish jobs unlike Koeman.


“If they are superior why can’t they beat us in the derby?”
I’ve not claimed anywhere we are superior. I mentioned an FT article which showed Everton ran an efficient pound per pound metric. Athletico Madrid top this metric, losing to Real Madrid doesn’t change this? We lose derbies as a mixture of a mental block against the top teams and that we are starting from a much lower base when we spend money.

“Yes he is doing something different... He's not backing their stadium build..

He's so unwilling to put his money where his mouth is, that the people of Liverpool are having to back it because he's unwilling to...”

It’s difficult to know where to start with this ignorance. No owner has ever built a football stadium. It’s a reasonable stick to beat Koeman with, but you would have to beat every other owner with the same stick. He’s used connections and finance to ensure we have a very sweet deal, which means his liquidity doesn’t need to be tied up into this.

As for the Council tax payers paying for it? They won’t pay a penny. They will receive over 4 million pounds per year to help the infrastructure projects, some can hopefully go to try and renovate the area of Anfield you have greatly damaged.

“The best part of that post is "spent a billion pounds over ten years to win a Carling cup". Such an arbitrary time period to use.
Why not, say, 22 years? Let's compare spend/trophies in that time.”

You have to laugh at this, and the lack of any kind of irony. A decade is an arbitrary number yet 22 isn’t? Yet more Kopite logic (alternative facts) for you there.

Anyway, here all week for you lads. I’l be going to the “red pub” on Tuesday night and will try again to tell the rats not to subscribe to the Sun Newspaper. It will likely fall on death ears though. Imagine that, having to have an Evertonian argue with a post owned by and run for Liverpool fans about why subscribing to several copies of the Sun newspaper is problematic. The phrase scum of the earth is too kind.

Five times tho lad

 

[Saint Domingo]

View attachment 36006
Five times tho lad

Remember the Orc holding this up to Ronaldo as he slotted Madrid's third in?

 

[Dan Tanner]

A quick reply to the rats over on Rawk who have strawmanned my position and as usual lacked the cognitive capabilities to grasp the nuance (or even the essence) of the point.

My post was in part a direct reply to tubby Atkinson over at TAW making the claim none of the Everton side would get into his Liverpool team. His main evidence for this was the sample size of one game. As you were though, Lukaku definitely isn’t better than Firmino or Origi. I won’t make the counter case, there is no need. Sometiems things are so obvious you don’t need too. I’m sure some of the more sensible reds can see past the cult thinking that pervades. Anyway to the quotes.

“our team in the derby cost less”
Yes our team cost less and yes it looked like a side that cost less. There was nothing in the text to suggest otherwise. The point is, given the large differential in spending for Everton to be within 3 or 4 places of Liverpool is a decent achievement. Not just Liverpool, we are the odd one out of the top 7 teams in terms of money spent. The challenge for Everton remains, if we increase the values spent can we do so prudently.

“we signed him in January 2013, when he was about 20 years old. He's been getting steadily better the whole time. Do they not even get simple stuff like that?”
This is a point from the same poster on Coutinho. I don’t remember any of the text questioning that. Coutinho has improved year on year and is a very decent footballer.

“Revenue streams”
There was some query about revenue streams not increasing. Our shirt sponsorship is likely to be 300% of what it was. New deals are being agreed all the time. A ground which open up enormous potential (if/when built) to continue that process. We are starting from a low base, well below Liverpool (who are very successful in this area). Pointing out the additional revenue Liverpool have doesn’t change the scale of improvement by Everton.

“I also like how they mention Tuchel is only under performing at Dortmund because Klopp was at a successful club,they were in the bottom half of the Bundesliga when Klopp took over,Tuchel took over a team that was still essentially Klopp's team where the majority had won domestic titles and cups and got to a CL final.”
Did he? Most of the star men of Klopp’s era had gone or been run into the ground. Levandovski, Goetze, Kagawa, Mikhatarian, Sahin etc have all gone. Klopp left a side that was bottom of the league at Christmas and in a huge mess. They were a mid season break away from catastrophe.

As for Europe being terrified, who’s terrified? Give me one quote from anyone who is any way terrified of Liverpool? Nobody is bothered, it’s a fantasy you’ve told yourselves to make yourself feel important. The Real Madrid job has opened numerous times, has Klopp ever been interviewed? Has he even been considered?

When the Barca job was open Koeman was listed as the favourite for the job with the bookies, and across the Spanish media and even the local paper of the City that Klopp works in. I barely remember seeing ay links to Klopp. It’s fanciful rubbish, Klopp was not considered for either of the big 2 Spanish jobs unlike Koeman.


“If they are superior why can’t they beat us in the derby?”
I’ve not claimed anywhere we are superior. I mentioned an FT article which showed Everton ran an efficient pound per pound metric. Athletico Madrid top this metric, losing to Real Madrid doesn’t change this? We lose derbies as a mixture of a mental block against the top teams and that we are starting from a much lower base when we spend money.

“Yes he is doing something different... He's not backing their stadium build..

He's so unwilling to put his money where his mouth is, that the people of Liverpool are having to back it because he's unwilling to...”

It’s difficult to know where to start with this ignorance. No owner has ever built a football stadium. It’s a reasonable stick to beat Koeman with, but you would have to beat every other owner with the same stick. He’s used connections and finance to ensure we have a very sweet deal, which means his liquidity doesn’t need to be tied up into this.

As for the Council tax payers paying for it? They won’t pay a penny. They will receive over 4 million pounds per year to help the infrastructure projects, some can hopefully go to try and renovate the area of Anfield you have greatly damaged.

“The best part of that post is "spent a billion pounds over ten years to win a Carling cup". Such an arbitrary time period to use.
Why not, say, 22 years? Let's compare spend/trophies in that time.”

You have to laugh at this, and the lack of any kind of irony. A decade is an arbitrary number yet 22 isn’t? Yet more Kopite logic (alternative facts) for you there.

Anyway, here all week for you lads. I’l be going to the “red pub” on Tuesday night and will try again to tell the rats not to subscribe to the Sun Newspaper. It will likely fall on death ears though. Imagine that, having to have an Evertonian argue with a post owned by and run for Liverpool fans about why subscribing to several copies of the Sun newspaper is problematic. The phrase scum of the earth is too kind.

Aren't they convinced that your really "Andy from Allerton" on a massive wind up over here. Although I did hear Andys mam has stopped his Internet privileges when she came home early from bingo and caught him tugging off to pictures of elderly gentleman in stained underwear wearing liverpool bobble hats.

 

[catcherintherye]

Aren't they convinced that your really "Andy from Allerton" on a massive wind up over here. Although I did hear Andys mam has stopped his Internet privileges when she came home early from bingo and caught him tugging off to pictures of elderly gentleman in stained underwear wearing liverpool bobble hats.

Yea I saw that but it was lost on me unfortunately! I'm not on a wind up, I just speak truth and back it up with facts. For the deceitful and the corrupt associated with LFC that understandably causes some confusion and anger.

 

[Dan Tanner]

Ha

Yea I saw that but it was lost on me unfortunately! I'm not on a wind up, I just speak truth and back it up with facts. For the deceitful and the corrupt associated with LFC that understandably causes some confusion and anger.

Ha ha ha.... I think you, the esk and davek pretty much get vilified over there, you especially at the moment. Always like to read other teams forums though, even over at mordors, although the bile spouted can be bizarre at times but it's always decent to get other supporters viewpoints. Especially as my missus is a sometimes angry red

 

[catcherintherye]

Ha

Ha ha ha.... I think you, the esk and davek pretty much get vilified over there, you especially at the moment. Always like to read other teams forums though, even over at mordors, although the bile spouted can be bizarre at times but it's always decent to get other supporters viewpoints. Especially as my missus is a sometimes angry red

Well what have I done to upset them hey? . In all seriousness it's an honour to read my name up their alongside davek and the esk. Christ knows what either of those two have done to upset them. Exist I should imagine.

 

[ToffeeDan]

“Revenue streams”
Liverpool...are very successful in this area

I'll have you know they aren't but I don't want them to think otherwise.

 

[catcherintherye]

I'll have you know they aren't but I don't want them to think otherwise.

I think they are to be honest. There are many things I'd knock FSG for and many problems they face, ut they know how to market the branch and drive up turnover. They are streets ahead of us in that department, which has underpinned why they have been able to finish a couple of places above us most seasons (which seems to be like their trophies over the last 10 years).