ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC"

[Kinghowie]

You could use that argument yes. Koeman inherited a team on free fall last season and has stabilised us in his first 40 games.

It is simply not true to say it's easier to improve 14 points on 47 than 11 on 62. That is simple mathematics in which it says it's not as big a jump.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Stats can be used to sway whatever you want to believe. Koeman did inherit a team that was in freefall, he also inherited a team that had the talent to push for a Top 4 place previously. He inherited a team that didn't want to play for the previous manager, he inherited a team that couldn't defend. He also inherited the Leagues top scorer. And added some quality in the middle in Gana and Morgan, Given his reputation, I'm a little disappointed in Koeman this season, it seems I'm one of a very few.
But whatever way you dress it up, to improve from 60 to 76 is a better improvement than 47 upto 61/62, and a lot harder to make that leap into the top 4. It's easy to improve on 47 points, from a team that couldn't defend and looked like the players downed tools in the 2nd half of that season, people shouldn't really use last season as a true barometer of the improvement this season as we were so shocking. Even if Koeman hadn't added to that team in the window, I would have expected improvement, new manager, tactics, being able to defend, fresh ideas, getting the most from the players, Leagues top scorer and motivated players.

 

[Furey1878]

Kopite a fawns bf over Kuyt and Feynoord fans singing YNWA

I hope the Dutch kopite S go into administration

 

[Kinghowie]

Like he did this year. It's likely no extended cup run helped you in the league. But with European football next year it will really hinder you.

Coutinho is pretty much off but he'll just pay FSGs shareholders tbh, dont forget you're millions and millions and millions of pounds in debt. CL (if you get past qualifiers) should keep the wolf from the door but a few more dodgy signings will see things get interesting.

Mate, just because I'm critical of Koeman, and defending Klopp, doesn't make me one of them. Anyways, I'm not defending Klopp as such, I'm just picking up on a poster that said, percentage wise, our improvement is greater. As I've said above, I would have expected our improvent to be greater.

 

[boris]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Stats can be used to sway whatever you want to believe. Koeman did inherit a team that was in freefall, he also inherited a team that had the talent to push for a Top 4 place previously. He inherited a team that didn't want to play for the previous manager, he inherited a team that couldn't defend. He also inherited the Leagues top scorer. And added some quality in the middle in Gana and Morgan, Given his reputation, I'm a little disappointed in Koeman this season, it seems I'm one of a very few.
But whatever way you dress it up, to improve from 60 to 76 is a better improvement than 47 upto 61/62, and a lot harder to make that leap into the top 4. It's easy to improve on 47 points, from a team that couldn't defend and looked like the players downed tools in the 2nd half of that season, people shouldn't really use last season as a true barometer of the improvement this season as we were so shocking. Even if Koeman hadn't added to that team in the window, I would have expected improvement, new manager, tactics, being able to defend, fresh ideas, getting the most from the players, Leagues top scorer and motivated players.

Koeman didn't inherit the top scorer, he inherited a fella who's never got 20 lge goals before, he made the top scorer.

No one seen Gana's quality bar Koeman, he was a midfielder from a relegated side who no one was interested in.

You're underlining the impressive work Koeman has done with these 2 strokes of good management.

Schneiderlin has only played 9 games, he's hardly had his quality to call on, he's just bedded him for next year.

 

[Kinghowie]

Koeman didn't inherit the top scorer, he inherited a fella who's never got 20 lge goals before, he made the top scorer.

No one seen Gana's quality bar Koeman, he was a midfielder from a relegated side who no one was interested in.

You're underlining the impressive work Koeman has done with these 2 strokes of good management.

Schneiderlin has only played 9 games, he's hardly had his quality to call on, he's just bedded him for next year.

the fact remains, that with the Leagues top scorer, adding Gana to the middle has been a real success (Walsh signing?), the addition of Williams and Koemans supposed tactical nous. Add that to the fact that the team last season weren't playing for the Manager, didn't look motivated and couldn't defend, the "improvement" isn't as good as everyone thinks, especially, as, on this very forum, people are saying that this League is extremely weak.
Even if Koeman brought no players in, I would have expected some improvement. I would have expected him to get more out of the players he was left with. I would have expected us to be a bit better away from Goodison. 18pts away from home? 4 wins? With the Leagues top scorer in the side? If the RS are where they are because UTD and Arsenal are so poor this season, we're only 7th because West Ham, Leics and Stoke have been so poor and dropped out of the top 10. Not to mention Soton dropping 3 places too.

 

[Dario Terracotta]

Koeman didn't inherit the top scorer, he inherited a fella who's never got 20 lge goals before, he made the top scorer.

No one seen Gana's quality bar Koeman, he was a midfielder from a relegated side who no one was interested in.

You're underlining the impressive work Koeman has done with these 2 strokes of good management.

Schneiderlin has only played 9 games, he's hardly had his quality to call on, he's just bedded him for next year.

 

[boris]

the fact remains, that with the Leagues top scorer, adding Gana to the middle has been a real success (Walsh signing?), the addition of Williams and Koemans supposed tactical nous. Add that to the fact that the team last season weren't playing for the Manager, didn't look motivated and couldn't defend, the "improvement" isn't as good as everyone thinks, especially, as, on this very forum, people are saying that this League is extremely weak.
Even if Koeman brought no players in, I would have expected some improvement. I would have expected him to get more out of the players he was left with. I would have expected us to be a bit better away from Goodison. 18pts away from home? 4 wins? With the Leagues top scorer in the side? If the RS are where they are because UTD and Arsenal are so poor this season, we're only 7th because West Ham, Leics and Stoke have been so poor and dropped out of the top 10. Not to mention Soton dropping 3 places too.

I think all Evertonians agree but we've all gave him a free pass this year, it's his first season. We expect more next year but as you have said, there's plenty of things to like about Koeman's first season.

You are comparing Koeman's first season to Klopps' second though. They've both been average but Klopp has had a year to lay the foundation for what's happened this year and the very many poor results he's had mean it's highly likely all he'll have to show for his work is a very difficult play off against a higher seeded club in the champions lge.

The fact that his peers didn't warrant him anything above average is very telling.

 

[ToffeeDan]

Here's hoping... they drop to 4th.

How the CL could get a bit tricky for the RS

They would drop into a group of 10 teams - 5 seeded, 5 unseeded. It's possible they could be ranked as low as EIGHTH..

1 Borussia Dortmund - if they drop to 4th in Bundesliga
2 Sevilla - confirmed in this round
3 Napoli - if they finish 3rd in Italy (currently 3rd)
4 Zenit - if they finish 2nd in Russian league (currently 3rd)
5 Dinamo Kyiv - if they win one round of CL qualifiers
6 Ajax - unless they win the Europa League Final
7 Anderlecht - if they finish 2nd in Belgium
8 Liverpool - if they drop to 4th in the PL.

So, currently Sevilla, Napoli, Kyiv and Ajax are on target to be ranked above them and in their round. Therefore this needs one of Dortmund, Zenit or Anderlecht to finish as stated above - as well as Liverpool to drop to 4th to be unranked and face one the 5 ranked teams from the teams in the list above (obviously they will get the heated ball with Anderlecht on it)

 

[boris]

Here's hoping... they drop to 4th.

How the CL could get a bit tricky for the RS

They would drop into a group of 10 teams - 5 seeded, 5 unseeded. It's possible they could be ranked as low as EIGHTH..

1 Borussia Dortmund - if they drop to 4th in Bundesliga
2 Sevilla - confirmed in this round
3 Napoli - if they finish 3rd in Italy (currently 3rd)
4 Zenit - if they finish 2nd in Russian league (currently 3rd)
5 Dinamo Kyiv - if they win one round of CL qualifiers
6 Ajax - unless they win the Europa League Final
7 Anderlecht - if they finish 2nd in Belgium
8 Liverpool - if they drop to 4th in the PL.

So, currently Sevilla, Napoli, Kyiv and Ajax are on target to be ranked above them and in their round. Therefore this needs one of Dortmund, Zenit or Anderlecht to finish as stated above - as well as Liverpool to drop to 4th to be unranked and face one the 5 ranked teams from the teams in the list above (obviously they will get the heated ball with Anderlecht on it)

It will be sorted at the weekend in Germany, if Hoffenheim get a couple of goals better result than Dortmund (who have got a tougher game v Bremen) then Dortmund will be one of the teams they can face. They will definitely have Seville as you say and either Roma or Napoli as well. Then it's highly likey to be Ajax or Zenit so one of those 5 teams is who they will get.

I hope they finish 4th and get one of the Italian teams.

 

[ToffeeDan]

It will be sorted at the weekend in Germany, if Hoffenheim get a couple of goals better result than Dortmund (who have got a tougher game v Bremen) then Dortmund will be one of the teams they can face. They will definitely have Seville as you say and either Roma or Napoli as well. Then it's highly likey to be Ajax or Zenit so one of those 5 teams is who they will get.

I hope they finish 4th and get one of the Italian teams.

Roma are ranked below them.. so we can hope Napoli. You are right it will all be known by Sunday or perhaps before:

Hoffenheim need a better result (or 4, realistically 5 goals better if they both win (lose!!!), they are 4 goals behind BD and are losing the head to head if it is tied GD/Goals). Yes, BD's oppos (Werder Bremen) have a slight chance of Europa League qualification to play for*

Russia - Wednesday (or Sunday 1.00 KO)
Belgium - Thursday (or Sunday 1.30 KO)
Italy - Saturday (or in the final round the week after)
Germany - Saturday
England - will go to Sunday regardless. 3pm
Europa Cup Final - Wed 24th

* just seem that Hoffenheim are playing Augsburg. If someone can let Augsburg know that Liverpool are depending on them to not fall apart they might just not try too hard after the dubious penalty elimination in last season's Europa KO at Anfield..

 

[boris]

Roma are ranked below them.. so we can hope Napoli. You are right it will all be known by Sunday or perhaps before:

Hoffenheim need a better result (or 4, realistically 5 goals better if they both win (lose!!!), they are 4 goals behind BD and are losing the head to head if it is tied GD/Goals). Yes, BD's oppos (Werder Bremen) have a slight chance of Europa League qualification to play for.

Russia - Wednesday (or Sunday 1.00 KO)
Belgium - Thursday (or Sunday 1.30 KO)
Italy - Saturday (or in the final round the week after)
Germany - Saturday
England - will go to Sunday regardless. 3pm
Europa Cup Final - Wed 24th

Ppffftt....I didn't know Roma were ranked below them.

They'll end up getting Ajax after we've signed there best players.

 

[Kurt.]

Place stinks of kopites

 

[davek]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Stats can be used to sway whatever you want to believe. Koeman did inherit a team that was in freefall, he also inherited a team that had the talent to push for a Top 4 place previously. He inherited a team that didn't want to play for the previous manager, he inherited a team that couldn't defend. He also inherited the Leagues top scorer. And added some quality in the middle in Gana and Morgan, Given his reputation, I'm a little disappointed in Koeman this season, it seems I'm one of a very few.
But whatever way you dress it up, to improve from 60 to 76 is a better improvement than 47 upto 61/62, and a lot harder to make that leap into the top 4. It's easy to improve on 47 points, from a team that couldn't defend and looked like the players downed tools in the 2nd half of that season, people shouldn't really use last season as a true barometer of the improvement this season as we were so shocking. Even if Koeman hadn't added to that team in the window, I would have expected improvement, new manager, tactics, being able to defend, fresh ideas, getting the most from the players, Leagues top scorer and motivated players.

He got a new manager bounce.

That's all. Bang average manager in no way comparable to a manager like Klopp who's been there done that got the t-shirt.

This club pays £7M per season for a man who hasn't won anything for over a decade. It's absolute highway robbery.

 

[Penno]

I'm going to sign up on RAWK as HolyTrinityKenny and talk about how great Koeman

 

[Titus Bramble]

He got a new manager bounce.

That's all. Bang average manager in no way comparable to a manager like Klopp who's been there done that got the t-shirt.

This club pays £7M per season for a man who hasn't won anything for over a decade. It's absolute highway robbery.

Didn't know he'd got a pay rise