2022/23 Ellis Simms

[Nymzee]

Bare crap. Sell.

 

[Eggs]

Not at all

I think he's shown some glimpses of promise but he's just not played enough to say one way or the other. On the young player grading curve that any sensible person would use, there's zero evidence that we should cull

Sell Maupay, extend Simms' contract, give him a pre-season under Dyche, and let him get some minutes during the upcoming season so he can continue to grow into the role

I think he'll come good for us. He's got the physical attributes and has shown he can slot when given the chance. Plenty of players make the jump from Championship to Premier League, so I don't see why he can't either with proper nurturing. Every loan he's had has been a success. He's done his time in the loan market and now it's time to give him a proper chance at stepping up and staking a claim. We haven't done that yet.

And if he doesn't step up, we can always sell him next summer if we've extended his deal and go with Cannon. If we sell Maupay then there's some funds for an additional striker for the upcoming season anyway

Only way I'd consider selling him is if he won't sign a contract extension, at which point we really have no choice because he's only got a year left. If he's willing to put the pen to paper then we should be willing to give him at least one more season

Now more than ever when we don't have financial might to spend we need to be supporting our young players, not looking for excuses to boot them out of the door when they haven't had a fair chance yet

I know that's never a popular sentiment amongst our fan base, but I think we need to adjust how we think a little bit

…have you not watched him on loan, Mikey?

Let’s not forget, various managers have seen him daily in training to know what they have. They watch him against Everton defenders every training session. We’ve seriously struggled for a striking option for 2 years, there’s a reason nobody has played Simms or even given him a place on the bench when he was here.

Simms isn’t an untried youngster, he’s played lots of football and is the same age as Haaland. You can’t use the first team to ‘trial’ players, you can’t give contract extensions to players you’re not going to use. You have to make the decision to move them on.

 

[MACCA75]

Not at all

I think he's shown some glimpses of promise but he's just not played enough to say one way or the other. On the young player grading curve that any sensible person would use, there's zero evidence that we should cull

Sell Maupay, extend Simms' contract, give him a pre-season under Dyche, and let him get some minutes during the upcoming season so he can continue to grow into the role

I think he'll come good for us. He's got the physical attributes and has shown he can slot when given the chance. Plenty of players make the jump from Championship to Premier League, so I don't see why he can't either with proper nurturing. Every loan he's had has been a success. He's done his time in the loan market and now it's time to give him a proper chance at stepping up and staking a claim. We haven't done that yet.

And if he doesn't step up, we can always sell him next summer if we've extended his deal and go with Cannon. If we sell Maupay then there's some funds for an additional striker for the upcoming season anyway

Only way I'd consider selling him is if he won't sign a contract extension, at which point we really have no choice because he's only got a year left. If he's willing to put the pen to paper then we should be willing to give him at least one more season

Now more than ever when we don't have financial might to spend we need to be supporting our young players, not looking for excuses to boot them out of the door when they haven't had a fair chance yet

I know that's never a popular sentiment amongst our fan base, but I think we need to adjust how we think a little bit

We need to ‘adjust how we think’ by selling him rather than giving him 150 games like Davies or still having Pennington at 26.

He isn’t a Prem level striker.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I actually hope we do sell him and he gets whatever club he plays for promoted and then returns to Goodison to give us a shellacking

At this stage we deserve it

 

[ToffeeTim]

Not at all

I think he's shown some glimpses of promise but he's just not played enough to say one way or the other. On the young player grading curve that any sensible person would use, there's zero evidence that we should cull

Sell Maupay, extend Simms' contract, give him a pre-season under Dyche, and let him get some minutes during the upcoming season so he can continue to grow into the role

I think he'll come good for us. He's got the physical attributes and has shown he can slot when given the chance. Plenty of players make the jump from Championship to Premier League, so I don't see why he can't either with proper nurturing. Every loan he's had has been a success. He's done his time in the loan market and now it's time to give him a proper chance at stepping up and staking a claim. We haven't done that yet.

And if he doesn't step up, we can always sell him next summer if we've extended his deal and go with Cannon. If we sell Maupay then there's some funds for an additional striker for the upcoming season anyway

Only way I'd consider selling him is if he won't sign a contract extension, at which point we really have no choice because he's only got a year left. If he's willing to put the pen to paper then we should be willing to give him at least one more season

Now more than ever when we don't have financial might to spend we need to be supporting our young players, not looking for excuses to boot them out of the door when they haven't had a fair chance yet

I know that's never a popular sentiment amongst our fan base, but I think we need to adjust how we think a little bit

If the manager thought he was good enough he wouldn't be available for sale.

Selling younger players rather than letting them leave for free is what we need to do far better. He's 22, and that's the age you need to make a decision on a player.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

…have you not watched him on loan, Mikey?

Let’s not forget, various managers have seen him daily in training to know what they have. They watch him against Everton defenders every training session. We’ve seriously struggled for a striking option for 2 years, there’s a reason nobody has played Simms or even given him a place on the bench when he was here.

Simms isn’t an untried youngster, he’s played lots of football and is the same age as Haaland.

There is

It's called managers being wary to take a chance on a younger player because they know the knives will be out because fans have no patience these days

 

[Mark_EFC]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but where has this take come from? Every loan he has had he has scored goals. He was a prolific goalscoarer at youth level. He was instrumental in helping to get Blackpool promoted and if he had not been recalled may have even achieved the same kind of success with Sunderland. He was recalled at the worst time possible when we had just fired Lampard the whole team was disjointed and we were joint bottom of the league. He was then pushed into the first team and was given starts against some of the toughest teams in the league because DCL had injury problems and maupay couldn’t score and then would be dropped. He was never given any consistent run in the first team. Despite all of this he still scored an banger against Chelsea. He played 219 minutes in 11 games which is around 20 minutes on average per game. What are you expecting him to do? There is a good player in there worth keeping imo.

For context on price, Arsenal are looking to sell Balogun for around 30 mil. This is a player who we are linked with and went on loan to Middlesborough and scored 3 goals in 20 appearances. Middlesborough one of the more established teams in the Championship. Simms scored 7 goals in 17 games for newly promoted Sunderland in the Championship. The reason why Balogun's fee has inflated considerably since then is because he went on loan to Reims and scored 22 goals for them. So would Simms only justify a price tag above 6 mil if he went on loan to a french team and scored 20 goals as well?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but where has this take come from? Every loan he has had he has scored goals. He was a prolific goalscoarer at youth level. He was instrumental in helping to get Blackpool promoted and if he had not been recalled may have even achieved the same kind of success with Sunderland. He was recalled at the worst time possible when we had just fired Lampard the whole team was disjointed and we were joint bottom of the league. He was then pushed into the first team and was given starts against some of the toughest teams in the league because DCL had injury problems and maupay couldn’t score and then would be dropped. He was never given any consistent run in the first team. Despite all of this he still scored an banger against Chelsea. He played 219 minutes in 11 games which is around 20 minutes on average per game. What are you expecting him to do? There is a good player in there worth keeping imo.

For context on price, Arsenal are looking to sell Balogun for around 30 mil. This is a player who we are linked with and went on loan to Middlesborough and scored 3 goals in 20 appearances. Middlesborough one of the more established teams in the Championship. Simms scored 7 goals in 17 games for newly promoted Sunderland in the Championship. The reason why Balogun's fee has inflated considerably since then is because he went on loan to Reims and scored 22 goals for them. So would Simms only justify a price tag above 6 mil if he went on loan to a french team and scored 20 goals as well?

He’s a good championship striker but he’s shown a lot of nothing in the time he has been given here. Missed a few chances that my two year old would’ve buried.

A lot more of that than his goal against Chelsea.

He’s not quick, and can’t take anyone on. He needs to be in right place at the right time or he isn’t scoring in the premier league

 

[kenada_blue]

…surely you’ve seen enough of him to know he’s not good enough. if posters are seriously content to have Ellis Simms as our back-up striker to DCL next season, then expect the same struggles as we’ve just had.

We’re a decent striker away from being relatively comfortable & that striker is definitely not Simms.

Don't think any fan can say they've seen enough of him to say he's not good enough after 221 mins of football and 3 starts away against Chelsea, United, Liverpool.

Staff and managers however are different.

 

[Eggs]

There is

It's called managers being wary to take a chance on a younger player because they know the knives will be out because fans have no patience these days

….ridiculous. No manager with a striker issue will keep a terrific talent on the sidelines if he thinks he’s the real deal. We finished this season with Gray as our central striker because we had zero options.

If he stays he won’t be used simply because he’s not an effective back-up.

 

[Bebeto]

If coventry wants him, then I don't see why it should be going for a lot less than they are demanding for gyokeres. If its true that we want gyokeres, and if its true they want simms, then including simms should reduce that transfer fee in half.

 

[Nymzee]

Don't think any fan can say they've seen enough of him to say he's not good enough after 221 mins of football and 3 starts away against Chelsea, United, Liverpool.

Staff and managers however are different.

I’ve watched him play footie since he was about 17 for Everton, as have many on here, and don’t think any of us have ever been impressed as a future PL striker.

 

[kenada_blue]

….ridiculous. No manager with a striker issue will keep a terrific talent on the sidelines if he thinks he’s the real deal. We finished this season with Gray as our central striker because we had zero options.

If he stays he won’t be used simply because he’s not an effective back-up.

Also played Holgate at right back due to "experience" and was having him and Godfrey train as defensive midfielders.

And signed Weghourst. The ultimate none goalscoring forward

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Also played Holgate at right back due to "experience" and was having him and Godfrey train as defensive midfielders.

And signed Weghourst. The ultimate none goalscoring forward

He's historically a manager who will wedge a square peg into a round hole if it means he can play an older more "experienced" player

Even if Simms was destroying Maupay in training, he's still young and unproven and training isn't a match situation

Plus, you know, we're generally a terrible fan base when it comes to being patient with younger players

Part of me wouldn't blame him for being wary

 

[kenada_blue]

He's historically a manager who will wedge a square peg into a round hole if it means he can play an older more "experienced" player

Even if Simms was destroying Maupay in training, he's still young and unproven and training isn't a match situation

Plus, you know, we're generally a terrible fan base when it comes to being patient with younger players

Part of me wouldn't blame him for being wary

Give Canon 6 months and he'll have the "he should be playing" shout before being "not good enough" the following 6 months

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Give Canon 6 months and he'll have the "he should be playing" shout before being "not good enough" the following 6 months

Oh I can already hear the knives being sharpened for him

Everyone is happy to jettison Simms right now because we've got Cannon, but as you say, in a years time they'll be demanding that he gets culled for whoever the new hotness is

Then they'll want that player culled and the cycle will repeat itself

Honestly we deserve to have one of these younger players come back and batter us in a game. It might make us learn something