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Elstone to leave

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ijjysmith said:
I bet he takes this job and keeps the one here too.

The bad nobber.
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yeah like when stuart pearce had to come out with that statement how he could manage the U21 job at the same time as the City job, and we all know how that turned out, sacked from both haha

I can see the statement now though, I feel due to the seasonal nature of both the EPL and Super League I am more than able to dedicate the time required to fulfil all of my obligations"

god im depressed at the thought, hes bad enough full time
 
blueblue said:
I wonder if Elstone had been at Man City in recent years, would they have failed to win trophies under his stewardship.

Maybe, he did as well as could be done with what he had to work with.

I really don't have any feelings towards Elstone one way or the other but as a fanbase we really seem to need somebody to blame, a scapegoat with our lack of success completely down to them.

The real cause of our lack of success... is lack of money.
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Elstone is not the money behind the club so in that regard cannot be held wholly responsible for the position that we have been in during his tenure as CEO. But the Premier League is one of the most marketable sporting competitions in the world and the extent to which we have been left behind by our peers in delivering none football income is nothing short of shocking. A large portion of the blame for that has to fall at his feet.

But it is the lack of regard and respect shown to fans and minority shareholders that rankles most with me. For that alone I'd be glad to see the back of him.
 
mkrudden said:
ok by definition of owner, fine.

What about using chairman? or person responsible? the person who is in charge of the culture of the club and, importantly, the progression.

I like Moshiri has money but he's been naive. I am not putting words in your electronic mouth but I cannot imagine you can argue against that?

So we've gone from a culture of "Plucky little Everton with no money" to "Everton have loads of money and buy Ashley Williams + 4x Number 10s and no striker".

To go back to your bullet point:

Do you have money? Yes- agreed
Will you use your money to buy company (club in this instance)? Yes - agreed
Are you intent on making this club or company profitable? But this is the point. Intention is not enough is it? Ploughing 200m into a squad and, more crucially, a manager because he was a fantastic CB reeks of naivety. Continuing to do so (given now Big Sam is there with all of his failings) isn't likely to lead to profitability. Or are you purely talking about a stadium?
Do you leave the day to day management to others with particular skillsets?
But again, he chooses those individuals. He's brought in Walsh, Koeman, Allardyce... the list goes on. He's at the top and his 2 years has led to nothing. That's his naivety. Just because he hasn't identified player x doesn't mean he isn't ultimately responsible because he employs the guy who has.
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Using the chairman? How could he? The current chairman has been quite clearly, almost unashamedly, briefing against him the last 12 months. So much so that when he appointed Allardyce, he put the new manager and the DOF in the same car as him and walked with them into the ground, CEO and Chair nowhere in sight. This chairman and the CEO who is clearly his man have lobbied against him, and the culture they have set historically has been one of distrust and chaos - see the Ian Ross emails, it goes that far back.

Plucky little Everton with no money? We've been that under Kenwright / Moyes / Neville, the three dweebs who set a culture (your word) of 'woe is us, we'll be happy being Scrappy-Doo. Trophies won = zero. New stadiums = zero. Selling the best players = many times.

So bullet points:

Yes
Yes
"a manager because he was a fantastic CB" - absolute mince.

upload_2018-3-13_16-45-17.webp


Koeman's record at southampton there. He also got us into Europe last season. Better record than Poch at Southampton. He was a fine choice, second season it went bad. Two subsequent managers have failed to do any better.

"Continuing to do so (given now Big Sam is there with all of his failings) isn't likely to lead to profitability". We're in profit and the debts are settled. So you're wrong.

But again, he chooses those individuals. He's brought in Walsh, Koeman, Allardyce... the list goes on. He's at the top and his 2 years has led to nothing. That's his naivety. Just because he hasn't identified player x doesn't mean he isn't ultimately responsible because he employs the guy who has

Let's break those choices down;

Koeman had to get us into Europe. He did. When it looked like he had lost control, he was sacked. Good choice, then it all went bad, so he was sacked.

Allardyce: clearly Moshiri thought we would go down (we didn't think it, but he did) so he appoints someone to keep us up. He has. Not been nice, thanks for the cheese, now get lost. Let's not forget before that he wanted to appoint a young, progressive coach (Silva) but thanks to Unnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnsy (clearly Kenwright's choice) plunging us into even deeper poop, we had to go nuclear.

Walsh: gets paid £1m a year. Previous club, he was credited (rightly or wrongly) with finding Vardy, Mahrez, Kante, all who when solved will realise big big profits. With Koeman, they bought a lot of crap. With Allardyce, he's bought Walcott (been great) and Tosun (who most people are beginning to get excited about). I think he will get a third summer.

And again, you totally underestimate the role of the CEO. The manager is NOT the most important individual at the club; in European clubs with DoF structures, he is easily dispensable, he's the head coach, he slots into a structure and is taken out when necessary. He's not the doyen like Ferguson, or Moyes was.

When Moshiri assumes full ownership and appoints comfortably the most important position - the CEO - THEN he takes full responsibility for the result. He's spent a quarter of a billion and hasn't yet put his own Chair, Board and CEO in place, and you think he is out of his depth?!?
 

orly said:
Using the chairman? How could he? The current chairman has been quite clearly, almost unashamedly, briefing against him the last 12 months. So much so that when he appointed Allardyce, he put the new manager and the DOF in the same car as him and walked with them into the ground, CEO and Chair nowhere in sight. This chairman and the CEO who is clearly his man have lobbied against him, and the culture they have set historically has been one of distrust and chaos - see the Ian Ross emails, it goes that far back.

Plucky little Everton with no money? We've been that under Kenwright / Moyes / Neville, the three dweebs who set a culture (your word) of 'woe is us, we'll be happy being Scrappy-Doo. Trophies won = zero. New stadiums = zero. Selling the best players = many times.

So bullet points:

Yes
Yes
"a manager because he was a fantastic CB" - absolute mince.

View attachment 44828

Koeman's record at southampton there. He also got us into Europe last season. Better record than Poch at Southampton. He was a fine choice, second season it went bad. Two subsequent managers have failed to do any better.

"Continuing to do so (given now Big Sam is there with all of his failings) isn't likely to lead to profitability". We're in profit and the debts are settled. So you're wrong.

But again, he chooses those individuals. He's brought in Walsh, Koeman, Allardyce... the list goes on. He's at the top and his 2 years has led to nothing. That's his naivety. Just because he hasn't identified player x doesn't mean he isn't ultimately responsible because he employs the guy who has

Let's break those choices down;

Koeman had to get us into Europe. He did. When it looked like he had lost control, he was sacked. Good choice, then it all went bad, so he was sacked.

Allardyce: clearly Moshiri thought we would go down (we didn't think it, but he did) so he appoints someone to keep us up. He has. Not been nice, thanks for the cheese, now get lost. Let's not forget before that he wanted to appoint a young, progressive coach (Silva) but thanks to Unnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnsy (clearly Kenwright's choice) plunging us into even deeper poop, we had to go nuclear.

Walsh: gets paid £1m a year. Previous club, he was credited (rightly or wrongly) with finding Vardy, Mahrez, Kante, all who when solved will realise big big profits. With Koeman, they bought a lot of crap. With Allardyce, he's bought Walcott (been great) and Tosun (who most people are beginning to get excited about). I think he will get a third summer.

And again, you totally underestimate the role of the CEO. The manager is NOT the most important individual at the club; in European clubs with DoF structures, he is easily dispensable, he's the head coach, he slots into a structure and is taken out when necessary. He's not the doyen like Ferguson, or Moyes was.

When Moshiri assumes full ownership and appoints comfortably the most important position - the CEO - THEN he takes full responsibility for the result. He's spent a quarter of a billion and hasn't yet put his own Chair, Board and CEO in place, and you think he is out of his depth?!?
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The reason I liked this post is because of the word 'doyen', which I'd not heard of or read before, and enjoyed, thanks Orly.

On topic, there definitely seems to be a staged transfer of power, and, with the imminent departure of Bobert, it definitely seems as if a key point in that staged transfer is approaching.

I think another quite significant point was around the time Allardyce was appointed there was a couple proper video interviews with Moshiri (with nothing from Kenwright), and up until that point there was very little exposure of him (the mind-bendingly bizarre Jim White stuff aside).
 

Better the devil you know. I bet the next one is going to be Steven Gerrard or someone.
HES FINALLY GONE!!!
 
There has to be substance in this, he will go when Kenwright does and you would presume he has known the timetable for that since Moshiri arrived.

I don't think this is like the managerial situation though, in which we are going to be hamstrung to a large degree in having to "settle" for the best we can get in our range.

The next CEO really has to be a big-hitter whose reputation and CV speaks for itself. Whether we can attract someone of that calibre or not remains to be seen, but if we end up with another second-rate appointment, it is a portent that Moshiri isn't really up for anything beyond mere stability. This will be his call entirely. I expect, or suspect, that it will be someone from within the USM family, or someone more loosely tied to Moshiri through business or football.

Timing will be important. Ideally Elstone and Kenwright would go before any additional changes to manager and DOF, but if either or both of Allardyce and Walsh are being replaced, hopefully the club are well down the road in doing so.

It could be a summer of monunental change, the most change a club can have with wholsesale changes to business and football management. With BMD as well, it will be quite a feat to pull it off unscathed. Hence the CEO will be the critical figure, that person really needs to grasp the club by its lapels and co-ordinate everything. We don't need a control freak in charge, but we do need zeal, drive, and passion.
 
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Tez said:
His legacy here will not be a good one. Commercially we are punching well below our weight.

Poor sponsorship deals, the Kitbag deal, etc.
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Thats not true at all, all the deals he did were decent for a club that hasnt won a pot for 23 years.

Most people think we should by getting the same deals as City and Utd or even Spurs.
 

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