EST Safe Standing Survey Results

[Dymak]

You made the original claim, you've cited a report that contradicts your claim & you've still yet to provide evidence to back up your point



Again how did standing up rather than seating affect Hillsborough.

To me it's logical that if you put the same amount of people in that pen with seating taking up space as well then it would have been even worse but I don't have evidence for that admittedly.

Unreserved tickets with high fences and an open gate were the problem. None of which have anything to do with the act of standing and none of which are present in modern day stadia including rail seating sections.

Jesus Christ, I stated that I have no problem with 1:1 allocated standing ages ago mate. I also said that standing played a fundamental role in Hillsborough, and it did! The idea that the Taylor reports contradicts this is absolutely laughable, as it does nothing of the sort, and goes on to advise the government to remove standing from major football grounds in England as a safety measure. That is my evidence, and I have already stated it on numerous occasions.

The truth is that PLENTY of people completely disagree with your view that standing is unequivocally safe, and this isn't because they are dumb or uneducated, it's because you have absolutely no evidence to convince them otherwise.

 

[Dymak]

Again how did standing up rather than seating affect Hillsborough.

To me it's logical that if you put the same amount of people in that pen with seating taking up space as well then it would have been even worse but I don't have evidence for that admi

Unreserved tickets with high fences and an open gate were the problem. None of which have anything to do with the act of standing and none of which are present in modern day stadia including rail seating sections.

Once again, the fact that there were circa 24,000 people going through about 12 gates also had something to do with it. If there had been seating then there wouldn't have been that many people trying to get in, the crush outside wouldn't have been anywhere near as bad, and they would not have all entered the same pen, as they would have sought to find their allocated seat.

 

[joey_macmo]

Once again, the fact that there were circa 24,000 people going through about 12 gates also had something to do with it. If there had been seating then there wouldn't have been that many people trying to get in, the crush outside wouldn't have been anywhere near as bad, and they would not have all entered the same pen, as they would have sought to find their allocated seat.

No that's unreserved tickets, once again nothing to do with the act of standing.

This is getting extremely tiresome

 

[Dymak]

No that's unreserved tickets, once again nothing to do with the act of standing.

This is getting extremely tiresome

You asked me to tell you how seating would have prevented the disaster and I have told you. I have asked for evidence that rail seating does not result in an increase in capacity and that it is unequivocally safer than normal seating, but there isn't any. This is why the government and plenty of other people don't agree with you, and remain unconvinced with your argument.

 

[joey_macmo]

Jesus Christ, I stated that I have no problem with 1:1 allocated standing ages ago mate. I also said that standing played a fundamental role in Hillsborough, and it did! The idea that the Taylor reports contradicts this is absolutely laughable, as it does nothing of the sort, and goes on to advise the government to remove standing from major football grounds in England as a safety measure. That is my evidence, and I have already stated it on numerous occasions.

The truth is that PLENTY of people completely disagree with your view that standing is unequivocally safe, and this isn't because they are dumb or uneducated, it's because you have absolutely no evidence to convince them otherwise.

If what I say is so laughable then it should be pretty easy to cite evidence to prove me wrong yet here we are a week later and you still haven't provided any.

Here's his reasoning for recommending all seater stadia. Could you point out the evidence that shows the act of standing & standing alone in unsafe or had anything to do with Hillsborough.

 

[joey_macmo]

You asked me to tell you how seating would have prevented the disaster and I have told you. I have asked for evidence that rail seating does not result in an increase in capacity and that it is unequivocally safer than normal seating, but there isn't any. This is why the government and plenty of other people don't agree with you, and remain unconvinced with your argument.

No you've told me how reserved tickets would have prevented the disaster. You've done this over & over & over

Still absolutely zero to do with the act of standing.

 

[Dymak]

If what I say is so laughable then it should be pretty easy to cite evidence to prove me wrong yet here we are a week later and you still haven't provided any.

Here's his reasoning for recommending all seater stadia. Could you point out the evidence that shows the act of standing & standing alone in unsafe or had anything to do with Hillsborough.

I'm afraid you are going to have to point out how that reference goes against what I have been arguing? If anything I should be using that reference. Taylor is listing the numerous advantages of seating as opposed to standing, and he quite clearly states that SAFETY is one of them. I've been on holiday the last week mate, in fact I'm still on holiday now.

 

[Verbal Kint]

I can't see no reason why safe standing can't be introduced. A lot more organising regarding ticketing and policing these days. It should be left up to clubs to reintroduce it if they wish.

That's just my opinion

 

[Lee Smith]

If what I say is so laughable then it should be pretty easy to cite evidence to prove me wrong yet here we are a week later and you still haven't provided any.

Here's his reasoning for recommending all seater stadia. Could you point out the evidence that shows the act of standing & standing alone in unsafe or had anything to do with Hillsborough.

Reading that lengthier excerpt from the Taylor Report, I noticed a couple of things.

Firstly, ALL of the 'disadvantages' of old style terrace standing that are mentioned are eradicated by rail seating.

Secondly, ALL of the 'advantages' of sitting are incorporated by rail seating.

The protection from swaying and surging, individuals having their own personal space, allocated ticketing, ability to monitor numbers, ease of identifying trouble makers. Literally everything that is championed there with regards to seating is incorporated into rail seating.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I can't see no reason why safe standing can't be introduced. A lot more organising regarding ticketing and policing these days. It should be left up to clubs to reintroduce it if they wish.

That's just my opinion

I agree with what others have said in here

They should stop calling it "safe standing" and just call it "rail seating"

Use of the world "standing" just carries bad connotations with some people

Rail seating is used just fine in Germany, and I don't think we're that far away from them culturally

 

[joey_macmo]

I'm afraid you are going to have to point out how that reference goes against what I have been arguing? If anything I should be using that reference. Taylor is listing the numerous advantages of seating as opposed to standing, and he quite clearly states that SAFETY is one of them. I've been on holiday the last week mate, in fact I'm still on holiday now.

This is ridiculous, I'm even supplying you with the links myself and you still can't point out a passage that shows the act of standing is unsafe.

You're proving my post last week about uneducated unsubstantiated opinions refusing to budge on the subject perfectly.

The Taylor report eradicated terracing, it did not eradicate the act of standing at a football match, hence why it is not illegal to stand at a match.

 

[Mountfield1985]

I'm afraid you are going to have to point out how that reference goes against what I have been arguing? If anything I should be using that reference. Taylor is listing the numerous advantages of seating as opposed to standing, and he quite clearly states that SAFETY is one of them. I've been on holiday the last week mate, in fact I'm still on holiday now.

This is ridiculous, I'm even supplying you with the links myself and you still can't point out a passage that shows the act of standing is unsafe.

You're proving my post last week about uneducated unsubstantiated opinions refusing to budge on the subject perfectly.

The Taylor report eradicated terracing, it did not eradicate the act of standing at a football match, hence why it is not illegal to stand at a match.

You're splitting hairs here. Yes of course the act of standing isn't what caused Hillsbrough, but of course if there was seating rather than a terrace that day it wouldn't have happened.

Going forward, you're both in favour of safe rail seating.

What's the issue? Move on.

 

[joey_macmo]

You're splitting hairs here. Yes of course the act of standing isn't what caused Hillsbrough, but of course if there was seating rather than a terrace that day it wouldn't have happened.

Going forward, you're both in favour of safe rail seating.

What's the issue? Move on.

Edit: be arsed, you're very correct about it not going anywhere & I should just leave it.

 

[Neveryourfault]

Bring it back!! we all want it except for 1 club

 

[Lee Smith]

Link posted in the New Stadium thread by @mightymoyes...

https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/how-an-...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer


As the author puts it...

"It wasn’t just the atmosphere, which was considerably better than most of us have become accustomed to at Premier League grounds in England, it was the sense that this is a safe way to enjoy watching football. Each individual ticket is barcoded which means only those in possession of them can gain access to the designated area but in order to add an extra layer of security Celtic have designated stewards who check all tickets at the bottom of access staircases to ensure no-one is able to go where they shouldn’t be.

That control on capacity is as crucial as it is reassuring but it is far from being the only control. Once inside the area, each supporter has a numbered “seat” as specified on their ticket, just as they would if visiting an all-seater stadium or the theatre. That is where you stand or, in the unlikely event that you might prefer not to, you can release the rail seat behind you and sit down.
This was nothing like the terraces that I had stood on in the years prior to all-seater stadia being introduced, particularly as instead of barriers spaced yards apart that created the possibility of supporters being moved about against their will there is, instead, a rail in front of each individual supporter which prevents that from happening.

With the potential for dangerous surges removed, you are able to watch the match confident that your safety is not at risk and may even be enhanced compared with all-seater stands. Gone is the risk of toppling forwards or backwards over a seat when a goal is scored and there is also increased ease of access as there is more space for supporters to enter and exit their designated row"


I appreciate how this is a sensitive subject for the people of the city of Liverpool, but how anyone can still be against Rail seating / Safe standing is beyond me.