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..it’s a difficult one. I am quite supportive of our strategy of buying the best young talent. As I say, ‘it’s low cost and low risk’ but it only takes one or two to come through. John Stones made the club a fortune, whilst Holgate and DCL are regular starters. for every one of them, there’ll be 5 like Galloway or Tarasaj.
Chelsea are way over the top, I expect we will be within new quotas.
I think players like Solanke just think they're good enough, so they back themselves to get games. Lookman is a bit like that for us, he obviously thinks he should be playing regularly, but he can't convince the manager to think the same way.
Also, just looking at Solanke last season, he went from 0 appearances at Chelsea to 27 at Liverpool, so it wasn't quite as hopeless to be fair to him.
mightymoyes
Player Valuation: £70m
i'd be astounded if solanke ever becomes a regular starter for liverpool though
Yeah same, I just looked at the figures to see whether he'd scored yet for them but then I saw the number of games. I think many players like him get a slightly inflated sense of self worth when they're being constantly told how great they are by agents/coaches/fans on social media etc. He's evidently been told by Klopp that he'll get opportunities (which he has) and he's backed himself to take them (which he hasn't). It's a difficult balance, because everyone says they want that 'arrogant' or 'winning' attitude when the going's good, but as soon as form dips/the player wants off, we say it's a bad attitude or poor decision making.
*edited to stay on topic* There's an argument that some of the players we've loaned out over recent years haven't really backed themselves/been backed by the club, to play at the highest possible level. Someone like Dowell for example doesn't seem to have that arrogant streak of someone who thinks they should be playing every week. Whether that's a good or a bad thing only time will tell I suppose.
You would think an “only six players on loan” rule shouldn’t affect us too much if it’s applied to our young players and forces us to get rid of the older dross also on loan, but it does have long term implications for us.
If applied now , we could have six youngsters on loan , Robinson, Connolly, Williams, Pennington , Vlasic and Onyekuru . I may have missed someone, am ignoring Garbutt etc. You would have to say that at least three of these are not going to make it with us on reality of stats of numbers who make it . ( Pennington and take your pick of two others) . 5 of these players were also on loan last season too, and there’s the rub. Some players need a couple of loans before they come through and improve on each move..... or are they blocking other youngsters going on loan if we are only allowed six? It’s a tricky one.
If applied now , we could have six youngsters on loan , Robinson, Connolly, Williams, Pennington , Vlasic and Onyekuru . I may have missed someone, am ignoring Garbutt etc. You would have to say that at least three of these are not going to make it with us on reality of stats of numbers who make it . ( Pennington and take your pick of two others) . 5 of these players were also on loan last season too, and there’s the rub. Some players need a couple of loans before they come through and improve on each move..... or are they blocking other youngsters going on loan if we are only allowed six? It’s a tricky one.
I think a caveat where players under the age of 20/21 are exempt could work
But having players on their mid to late 20s out on loan is crazy
At 21/22 you should know wether a player is good enough to make your squad
Better off selling him and letting him establish himself with another club and work his way back up
Yeah that makes sense, but there’s always exceptions you need to allow for and keep things flexible. Joe Williams will be 22 later this year, but of course has suffered significant injuries. You could see him being a decent squad member in the future if he continues to develop.
...the problem being players who you loan because you can’t shift them. Sandro and Mirallas are very difficult to sell. The next best thing is loans.
I understand that @Eggs
However we were in an unique situation of the clubs ie Koeman and Walsh’s making.
However I don’t think you can leave the system as is to the detriment of young players just because one or two clubs messed up.
Jody Morris has a piece this morning on sky sports saying how good Vhelseas academy is and players that are ready for the first team.
He also says they don’t get the chance because managers don’t even look at them playing.
There are calls on here for Mourinho to be approached to become our manager.
While I accept he is a fantastic manager and would definitely improve us , we may as well close the academy down if we appointed him.
I’m all in favour of developing our own young players and giving them a chance in the first team but only if they are good enough not just because they are young and local.
In the vast majority of cases players under 21 need loans out to get game time and learn to play in men’s football.
However at 21/22 you should know if they are going to make it , and if you think they won’t then either release or sell , not continuously loan them out.
evertonarntwe
Player Valuation: £35m
just been watching the league cup highlights and came across the forest vs stoke game, Ashley Williams directly at fault for the first 2 goals they conceded and put a sh*thouse challenge in for the 3rd goal, he is so so so bad
mightymoyes
Player Valuation: £70m
Will probably have to drop to league 1 if he wants to keep playing next season
Championship
Ipswich Town - Mstthew Pennington scored, was booked and then sent off for a second yellow in a 2-2 away draw at Birmingham City
OS Match Report
"It was Town who got the breakthrough on 26 minutes, Pennington did well defensively and then attacking wise to feed Kayden Jackson down the flank and Nolan arrived in the box to find the far corner with a terrific finish."
"soon after Town doubled the lead, Ward’s corner forced in by Pennington with his left foot."
"Pennington won an early free-kick for Blues with a driving run"
Twitter stuff
Pennington does well to find Jackson down the right who held the ball up before finding Nolan who curls the ball into the top corner expertly!
Ward's corner is swept into the corner by the everton loanee & Town are 2-0 up at St. Andrews!
52' Matthew Pennington goes into the book for a late challenge on Maghoma
RED CARD. Matthew Pennington is shown a second yellow card and Town will finish the game with 10 men.
Fan comments
"Probably our first red that was actually not a travesty. The second yellow was stupid and I think mostly showed inexperience in allowing himself to get irritated. I think many of us watching understood that irritation considering how the game was drifting away from us, and I can guarantee he feels stupid now for losing his composure. Generally though he's been a rock for us, had a good game until that point, and grabbed what should have been the winner. He deserved a muted ripple of applause at least."
"From where I was stood that second yellow was for kicking the brum players legs as he was going past, hard to see on the replay angle. Pennington had a decent match, no doubt, but making unnecessary fouls wound me up."
Bolton Wanderers - Joe Williams played full match in 1-0 home win over Derby County
OS Match Report
"It fell to Mason Mount, who jinked to his left and shot from close range, which was blocked superbly well by Joe Williams tracking back.
Fifteen minutes before the end and Joe Williams caught the away side in possession and began running at pace towards the Rams 18-yard box. With substitute Christian Doidge available to pass to, the midfield loanee opted to shoot and his curled effort aiming for the top right was narrowly off target."
Twitter stuff
Mason Mount finds himself in a promising position inside the box and his eventual shot is firmly struck, but goes narrowly over via a deflection off @JoeWilliams0812. (67)
Huge chance Wanderers! @JoeWilliams0812 pounces to win the ball and move forward towards the edge of the box, instead of threading a pass to @Chris_Doidge, he opted to shoot but his attempt went over the bar. (76)
Fan comments
"Williams was a nuisance all game and worked hard alongside the excellent Lowe."
"His partner Williams looked far less assured but Lowe kept him going."
"Williams back to the standard he set on his debut."
Wigan Athletic - Antonee Robinson played full match in 0-1 away defeat to Norwich City
Callum Connolly started on the bench and was brought on in the 76th minute of the same match
OS Match Report
"Reece James, Walton and Dunkley all made further efforts that looked to have saved Latics a point but substitute Connolly fouled Pukki in the closing stages and Vracic converted from the spot. "
Twitter stuff
85' Penalty to Norwich. Teemu Pukki held back in the area as he looked to shoot. (0-0)
Fan comments
"But i don't think it was a penalty in the second, i thought if he gave it against Connolly it's incredibly soft and if it's against Kipre he should be struck off as an official - that is diabolical, completely inexcusable."
"Robinson works hard and his pace get's him out of trouble for his defensive mistakes, but his realy strength is getting up the line and we just didn't see enough of that today. He's a key part of our attack and he wasn't involved in it enough today."
"Connolly got to say the more i see of the lad in midfield the more i'm confused that he apaprently did really well there for Ipswich, he looks every bit a clumbsy defender out of position rather than the lad who apaprently blossomed into a central midfield role last year. Thought his introduction was a bad choice."
"Strong tug by Connolly as their player tried to cut in with the ball in the box. It was less of a penalty than what Dunkley got away with in the first half but I think most will say it was deserved."
"Since seeing it live and now from the highlights(zero from us). I still think Connolly holds Pukki, slowing his run. Although not a pen for me. It probably is within the rules to give that."
Ipswich Town - Mstthew Pennington scored, was booked and then sent off for a second yellow in a 2-2 away draw at Birmingham City
OS Match Report
"It was Town who got the breakthrough on 26 minutes, Pennington did well defensively and then attacking wise to feed Kayden Jackson down the flank and Nolan arrived in the box to find the far corner with a terrific finish."
"soon after Town doubled the lead, Ward’s corner forced in by Pennington with his left foot."
"Pennington won an early free-kick for Blues with a driving run"
Twitter stuff
Pennington does well to find Jackson down the right who held the ball up before finding Nolan who curls the ball into the top corner expertly!
Ward's corner is swept into the corner by the everton loanee & Town are 2-0 up at St. Andrews!
52' Matthew Pennington goes into the book for a late challenge on Maghoma
RED CARD. Matthew Pennington is shown a second yellow card and Town will finish the game with 10 men.
Fan comments
"Probably our first red that was actually not a travesty. The second yellow was stupid and I think mostly showed inexperience in allowing himself to get irritated. I think many of us watching understood that irritation considering how the game was drifting away from us, and I can guarantee he feels stupid now for losing his composure. Generally though he's been a rock for us, had a good game until that point, and grabbed what should have been the winner. He deserved a muted ripple of applause at least."
"From where I was stood that second yellow was for kicking the brum players legs as he was going past, hard to see on the replay angle. Pennington had a decent match, no doubt, but making unnecessary fouls wound me up."
Bolton Wanderers - Joe Williams played full match in 1-0 home win over Derby County
OS Match Report
"It fell to Mason Mount, who jinked to his left and shot from close range, which was blocked superbly well by Joe Williams tracking back.
Fifteen minutes before the end and Joe Williams caught the away side in possession and began running at pace towards the Rams 18-yard box. With substitute Christian Doidge available to pass to, the midfield loanee opted to shoot and his curled effort aiming for the top right was narrowly off target."
Twitter stuff
Mason Mount finds himself in a promising position inside the box and his eventual shot is firmly struck, but goes narrowly over via a deflection off @JoeWilliams0812. (67)
Huge chance Wanderers! @JoeWilliams0812 pounces to win the ball and move forward towards the edge of the box, instead of threading a pass to @Chris_Doidge, he opted to shoot but his attempt went over the bar. (76)
Fan comments
"Williams was a nuisance all game and worked hard alongside the excellent Lowe."
"His partner Williams looked far less assured but Lowe kept him going."
"Williams back to the standard he set on his debut."
Wigan Athletic - Antonee Robinson played full match in 0-1 away defeat to Norwich City
Callum Connolly started on the bench and was brought on in the 76th minute of the same match
OS Match Report
"Reece James, Walton and Dunkley all made further efforts that looked to have saved Latics a point but substitute Connolly fouled Pukki in the closing stages and Vracic converted from the spot. "
Twitter stuff
85' Penalty to Norwich. Teemu Pukki held back in the area as he looked to shoot. (0-0)
Fan comments
"But i don't think it was a penalty in the second, i thought if he gave it against Connolly it's incredibly soft and if it's against Kipre he should be struck off as an official - that is diabolical, completely inexcusable."
"Robinson works hard and his pace get's him out of trouble for his defensive mistakes, but his realy strength is getting up the line and we just didn't see enough of that today. He's a key part of our attack and he wasn't involved in it enough today."
"Connolly got to say the more i see of the lad in midfield the more i'm confused that he apaprently did really well there for Ipswich, he looks every bit a clumbsy defender out of position rather than the lad who apaprently blossomed into a central midfield role last year. Thought his introduction was a bad choice."
"Strong tug by Connolly as their player tried to cut in with the ball in the box. It was less of a penalty than what Dunkley got away with in the first half but I think most will say it was deserved."
"Since seeing it live and now from the highlights(zero from us). I still think Connolly holds Pukki, slowing his run. Although not a pen for me. It probably is within the rules to give that."
..shame Pennington will miss a game but he seems to be making a positive impression. It’s probably unlikely any of the loanees will have a future with us but I wonder if Joe Williams has the attitude that just gives him a chance.
Jayhow15
Player Valuation: £35m
Agreed. Good cricketer though.
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